- Thread starter
- #61
bent metal
Airman
- 57
- Jun 16, 2014
What is that?
Japanese Zero
- Thread starter bent metal
- Start date
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- Thread starter
- #62
bent metal
Airman
- 57
- Jun 16, 2014
This is all very confusing.
How does this "lifting deally" do anything? It's simply going to go slack when the handle is raised. I guess it could limit downward travel. But that's all it's going to do.
How does this "lifting deally" do anything? It's simply going to go slack when the handle is raised. I guess it could limit downward travel. But that's all it's going to do.
Bent,
I wondered that as well, thanks for asking. At first I thought it was some sort of "shock damping" device (the bungee), but then I noticed the seat lift device (sort of looks like a parking brake). The seat lift would prevent the bungee from damping, and it was my assumption then that it might act as a spring to help the pilot "raise" the seat while he was in it. All guess work on my part.
Cheers,
Biff
I wondered that as well, thanks for asking. At first I thought it was some sort of "shock damping" device (the bungee), but then I noticed the seat lift device (sort of looks like a parking brake). The seat lift would prevent the bungee from damping, and it was my assumption then that it might act as a spring to help the pilot "raise" the seat while he was in it. All guess work on my part.
Cheers,
Biff
GregP
Major
Can't say from the drawing and pic shown, and I'd have to wait for our Zero to be reassenbled to say for sure, and I think Bent Metal needs the info before that time. When we looked at the seat, it was just that ... a seat. The cockpit has been completely disassembled and is completely deviod of any hardware.
GrauGeist
Generalfeldmarschall zur Luftschiff Abteilung
As the lever is raised, this allows the seat to elevate, which gave the pilot the ability to look over the cowl during takeoff or landing. When the lever is pushed down, the bungee cord elongates, allowing the seat to lower.
There was no forward adjustment to the seat, the rudder pedals were adjustable to accomodate the pilot.
Clever idea and certainly weight saving opposed to a more ellaborate metal adjustment system.
There was no forward adjustment to the seat, the rudder pedals were adjustable to accomodate the pilot.
Clever idea and certainly weight saving opposed to a more ellaborate metal adjustment system.
- Thread starter
- #66
bent metal
Airman
- 57
- Jun 16, 2014
If you wanted to save weight don't have anything there at all. ...IMO That seat weighs nearly nothing, if the pilot wanted to raise up or go down couldn't he just push off the floor a little bit with his feet? He basically has to only lift his weight, and he has the handle to help.
hmm? Guess that's just my opinion, which doesn't matter. If that's the way they were, that's the way they were. Now that you say it was a bungy, not just a cable, I understand.
Thank you.
hmm? Guess that's just my opinion, which doesn't matter. If that's the way they were, that's the way they were. Now that you say it was a bungy, not just a cable, I understand.
Thank you.
- Thread starter
- #67
bent metal
Airman
- 57
- Jun 16, 2014
Hi GregP,
Thank you very much for taking the time to talk with me and share some of your knowledge. It was all very interesting, and helpful for sure. Thank you very much! Look forward to talking with you again in the near future. We'll go to Flo's again, I'm buying.
You mentioned the pictures of the seat. I don't want to over step my boundries here. My boss is the one who had an agreement with Steve that allowed us to even get started on making this Zero seat. I'm sorta' doing this on my own in an effort to fill in the blanks where some of the original seat was missing brackets, etc. I'm not sure if it's ok with my boss or Steve to post pictures. Not that it's a big secret, since Spinpachi has what looks to me to be exact blueprints that are actually more complete than the original seat in it's current state. But it's definately Steve's decision to make. I'd like to respect that, as I'm sure you do as well. If you could, ask him the next time you see him. Can I post pictures?
Thank you very much for taking the time to talk with me and share some of your knowledge. It was all very interesting, and helpful for sure. Thank you very much! Look forward to talking with you again in the near future. We'll go to Flo's again, I'm buying.
You mentioned the pictures of the seat. I don't want to over step my boundries here. My boss is the one who had an agreement with Steve that allowed us to even get started on making this Zero seat. I'm sorta' doing this on my own in an effort to fill in the blanks where some of the original seat was missing brackets, etc. I'm not sure if it's ok with my boss or Steve to post pictures. Not that it's a big secret, since Spinpachi has what looks to me to be exact blueprints that are actually more complete than the original seat in it's current state. But it's definately Steve's decision to make. I'd like to respect that, as I'm sure you do as well. If you could, ask him the next time you see him. Can I post pictures?
GrauGeist
Generalfeldmarschall zur Luftschiff Abteilung
The bungee system was reliable, held the seat in place during landings, during combat and in rough weather yet allowed the seat's height to be adjusted by simply moving the lever.
Lightweight and very simple.
Lightweight and very simple.
No explanation but I guess it a safety wire to prevent the seat from falling in case the lock broken.
The rubber band of "lifting deally" is not a shock absorber but a lifting aid for the pilot.
Diameter 13mm x Length 1000mm.
GregP
Major
Hi Bent Metal,
Nice meeting you and walking around and having lunch. I'll ask Steve ... it IS his decision.
What is your boss's name? Maybe PM me so I can ask inteligently.
Look forward to seing you again.
Best regards, - Greg
Nice meeting you and walking around and having lunch. I'll ask Steve ... it IS his decision.
What is your boss's name? Maybe PM me so I can ask inteligently.
Look forward to seing you again.
Best regards, - Greg
Yep, makes sense, Dave. Still in use on aircraft seats today. When there's weight on the seat, i.e. the pilot's &rse, the bungee is under tension and the pan won't move. In order to adjust the pan up or down, the pilot lifts his &rse and the tension is released, which enables the seat pan to move. At least, that's what it looks like.
- Thread starter
- #73
bent metal
Airman
- 57
- Jun 16, 2014
Something like this? The light green piece being an "L" bracket of steel. The wire loop that is traingular is what the other end looks like.View attachment missing bracket.bmp
Needed to reattach my beautiful drawing. I think Spinpachi wants to make a copy to frame and hang on the wall in his living room.
Needed to reattach my beautiful drawing. I think Spinpachi wants to make a copy to frame and hang on the wall in his living room.
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- Thread starter
- #75
bent metal
Airman
- 57
- Jun 16, 2014
Ha, I think your making fun of my drawing? Haha. That's ok, I did it on "paint". 
Back to the bracket. I saw your earlier drawing with the starter thing strapped to the back of the seat. That's where I got the metal "L" bracket from. Which makes sence. Because if you didn't have that "L", when you sinched down the strap the started thing would just slide toward the center of the seat, not snug up to the seat back.
Back to the bracket. I saw your earlier drawing with the starter thing strapped to the back of the seat. That's where I got the metal "L" bracket from. Which makes sence. Because if you didn't have that "L", when you sinched down the strap the started thing would just slide toward the center of the seat, not snug up to the seat back.- Thread starter
- #76
bent metal
Airman
- 57
- Jun 16, 2014
Looking back at your blueprint from on this thread. The one with the pink line indicating where the starter thing goes. We know what the lower right attachement bracket looks like (reversed in the blueprint). The drawing shows a double line on that lower bracket. Which, I think, is showing the bracket is raised off of the surface. We know that is true, and I think the drawing is trying to illustrate that. If we look at the missing bracket it also has that double vertical line on both sides of the bracket. As if there is come kind of U-shaped craddle? Maybe with leather inside the "U". ...hmm? The picture in the book. Can you see that better than what we can see on the computer?
Oh, and the holes in the cross brace are not belled. Just a hole.
Do you have dimensions on the coat hanger, seat belt dealies?
Oh, and the holes in the cross brace are not belled. Just a hole.
Do you have dimensions on the coat hanger, seat belt dealies?
If I had been the designer of the seat at that time, I would also have had better idea to hold the starter crank handle firmly like you suggested in above.
I have seen the photo #71 to understand as it is and I think my understanding may be reasonable at the moment because you could have found anything there beside the 9 holes if there had been any metal parts attached. At least, the handle can be held without a L or U-shaped metal part as the center of the handle hits the seat cross bracket when tightened with the belt.
I have no further detailed data about the seat at the moment but would like to post again if any found.
I have seen the photo #71 to understand as it is and I think my understanding may be reasonable at the moment because you could have found anything there beside the 9 holes if there had been any metal parts attached. At least, the handle can be held without a L or U-shaped metal part as the center of the handle hits the seat cross bracket when tightened with the belt.
I have no further detailed data about the seat at the moment but would like to post again if any found.
- Thread starter
- #78
bent metal
Airman
- 57
- Jun 16, 2014
Ground crew are to enter into the rear fuselage for maintenance through the left back side of the seat.
Less prong would be favorable for them to prevent the cloths or skin from scratching.
Let's think why there are 9 rivet holes and why central 3 are shifted to the left when 6 are enough to support if there were any metal cradle as you imagine.
In addition,
I have not found such rivet holes in Mitsubishi Zeros but Nakajima's as if a relic of the past.
Mitsubishi mainly used the cloth seat belts while Nakajima favored the leather ones.
This will be enough.
Good luck and nice day, bent metal.
Less prong would be favorable for them to prevent the cloths or skin from scratching.
Let's think why there are 9 rivet holes and why central 3 are shifted to the left when 6 are enough to support if there were any metal cradle as you imagine.
In addition,
I have not found such rivet holes in Mitsubishi Zeros but Nakajima's as if a relic of the past.
Mitsubishi mainly used the cloth seat belts while Nakajima favored the leather ones.
This will be enough.
Good luck and nice day, bent metal.
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- Thread starter
- #80
bent metal
Airman
- 57
- Jun 16, 2014
Ok, I've watched that above video about ten times. I think that seat is a re-make. On the upper seat back there is basically four holes on the right (as your looking from the back), and three on the left. Of the four holes, the one to the top center of the seat should be about a half inch smaller in diameter. It's not, it's the same as all of the surrounding belled holes. Also, refering to the four hole cluster, the top right hole looks to be too far out away from the center of the seat. The wired edge is a little too rounded too. It should be more angular. ...Nice seat, looks close, but not the way they were. ...Scratch that one as a seat referance.
You can refer back to page 3 for Spinpachi's blue print. Refer to 1:30 in on the video for comparison of the holes, 3:19 for the wired edge.
You can refer back to page 3 for Spinpachi's blue print. Refer to 1:30 in on the video for comparison of the holes, 3:19 for the wired edge.
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