Kobe Bryant Crash

[Husky]

View attachment 568350

This has some very interesting gaphics:

Kobe Bryant crash: Helicopter was flying in 'very scary conditions'

Remember, when you see the attitude read; that is in MSL and not AGL. The aircraft was probably operating at times less that 100-200 feet AGL.
Here's the final in the series:

 

[FLYBOYJ]

Great graphic! Just a note - the area between the area and impact and the opposite side of the 101 is not very wide. Additionally from the view looking at this, the terrain is rising as you head north west on the 101.

 

[Admiral Beez]

Are all USN/RN/RCN helicopter pilots fully trained on IFR/IMC? I assume if you're in an ASW role you need to fly in all weathers. How do these guys stay alive? Of course training, drill, training, sims, etc.... but are military helicopters somehow better equipped for all weathers?

 

[Husky]

Great graphic! Just a note - the area between the area and impact and the opposite side of the 101 is not very wide. Additionally from the view looking at this, the terrain is rising as you head north west on the 101.

Gotcha...and kind of appears so, the terrain rising on 101 to the NW.

But, here's my "Hmmmm": if the last reported altitude and airspeed from his transponder to ATC is that last vertical red line then why turn left up that small rising valley to the impact point? Wasn't the aircrafts route still about 90 degrees to the right of that valley in the low ground?

 

[FLYBOYJ]

Gotcha...and kind of appears so, the terrain rising on 101 to the NW. But, if the last reported altitude and airspeed from his transponder to ATC is that last vertical red line then why turn left up that small valley to the impact point? Wasn't the aircrafts route still about 90 degrees to the right of that valley in the low ground?

Panic and yes. I think he ran into a wall of soup and thought to avoid IMC he could climb and turn, possibly thinking he was further east of his position

 

[Husky]

Panic and yes. I think he ran into a wall of soup and thought to avoid IMC he could climb and turn, possibly thinking he was further east of his position

That's what the conclusion I come to as well, and with the rising flatter terrain to the right of his original course...there was probably 'soup' there too.

 

[XBe02Drvr]

Are all USN/RN/RCN helicopter pilots fully trained on IFR/IMC? I assume if you're in an ASW role you need to fly in all weathers. How do these guys stay alive? Of course training, drill, training, sims, etc.... but are military helicopters somehow better equipped for all weathers?

Flying in poor vis over the ocean is a lot less risky than over land. I'm way out of date, but all the choppers I saw in the Navy were IFR capable, and practice was constant, although we seldom saw serious IMC in the Keys.
Our helicopters were all retired sonar dunkers and had the Doppler auto hover capability.
Cheers,
Wes

 

[Husky]

Flying in poor vis over the ocean is a lot less risky than over land. I'm way out of date, but all the choppers I saw in the Navy were IFR capable, and practice was constant, although we seldom saw serious IMC in the Keys.
Our helicopters were all retired sonar dunkers and had the Doppler auto hover capability.
Cheers,
Wes

My brother was a Navy SH-60 driver that did plenty of ASW work, plus whatever else they do, and when I told him (in the late 80's) how us Army pukes fly under NVG's (that at the time were modified grunts NVG's), moon illumination, formations, weather, terrain and such....he said; "That's just F&^%ing crazy!". I gather he concluded much like you XBe02Drvr.

The Army did suffer a fair amount of accidents, incidents and loss of life during that learning transition to becoming "Night fighters".

 

[Husky]

My unofficial NTSB summary report for the crash of aircraft N72EX:

Pilot Error; due to excessive operating speed at low altitude in a low ceiling/low visibility environment severely reducing pilot response time to avoid obstacles and hazards with a possible addition of some spatial disorientation.

…or, something to that effect in official gov'ment NTSB verbiage.

Now...why did a reported 8,000 hour, IFR certified pilot neglect and ignore one of the most unique capabilities that make rotorcraft so valuable, particularly in low ceiling/low visibility circumstances and operate his craft like an airplane at such low altitude and in such weather?

I'm going to conclude it was "on-time-itis". The high value, high profile customer had a schedule to keep and he had already lost 15-17 minutes loitering doing circles awaiting ATC authorization. He needed to make up time.


OK, I'm ready for the darts.

 

[Glider]

I suspect that you are right, no darts from here. At the end of the day if you are unsure of your position at night or in bad weather the golden rule is of course climb to a height where you cannot hit anything, then you can sort things out in safety.
No one has mentioned any mechanical or shortage of fuel issues, so that only leaves time

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

No darts from me. It is pretty much what I have been thinking all along.

 

[XBe02Drvr]

I'm going to conclude it was "on-time-itis". The high value, high profile customer had a schedule to keep and...... He needed to make up time.

Casey Jones at the throttle. Age old tale. And we tout ourselves as an intelligent species.

 

[Peter Gunn]

*SNIP* And we tout ourselves as an intelligent species.

Speak for yourself...

 

[XBe02Drvr]

OK, I'm ready for the darts.

Not a dart. Just a question from a rotary ignoramus to the fling wing fliers in our midst. How does a hotrod like the S76 handle in a slow speed steep gradient climb, as in NOE in low vis in hilly terrain? Is it a comfortable flight regime or a "hairy edge" exercise? Does it leave you with a "speed is life" kind of feeling? Just curious.
Cheers,
Wes

 

[XBe02Drvr]

Speak for yourself...

Lucky - most of the time. Intelligent? - maybe occasionally....er....VERY occasionally. Experience is a more reliable guide in the long run.
Cheers,
Wes

 

[Husky]

Not a dart. Just a question from a rotary ignoramus to the fling wing fliers in our midst. How does a hotrod like the S76 handle in a slow speed steep gradient climb, as in NOE in low vis in hilly terrain? Is it a comfortable flight regime or a "hairy edge" exercise? Does it leave you with a "speed is life" kind of feeling? Just curious.
Cheers,
Wes

Never flown an S-76. But, the development of the S-76 used many developmental ideas from Sikorsky's development of the UH-60 Blackhawk in the 70's utilizing many of the same mechanical concepts....just on a smaller scale for the S-76. For instance, the 'fully articulating rotor-head' (which is a study in itself --- helicopter rotor-head designs).

The UH-60, when 'slick' and even at basic planned operating weight (which would be near 3/4 of it max gross wt.) is a dream to fly. The rotor-head design provides an incredibly responsive aircraft, makes one confident in 'flicking' the bird around with ease at near any speed. Again, depending upon aircraft configuration, the engines provide sufficient power reserve (depending upon weight and DA) to cover near all profiles of flight up until maybe 8k feet, but then one has to fudge in some aerodynamic effects on rotor lift during rapid maneuvers and engine power demands.

But from sea level to 6-7k feet configured 'slick' at operating weight at standard temp and pressure...one gets comfortable very quickly, the aircraft provides easily...it's the pilot that becomes the "hairy edge" of limits.

"Speed is Life"? Not for a rotorcraft. Agility, maneuverability, power reserve, tail-rotor authority and the ability to transition between modes of flight and speeds quickly and safely without having to 'babysit' system limitations come to mind. "Speed"..."Airspeed" in a rotorcraft can be very helpful...but, also a hindrance...I, suppose, the answer is; the correct speed for the correct circumstance(s).

Did that help at all?

 

[XBe02Drvr]

Did that help at all?

Yes it did. One more quick question. I hear rotary pilots talk about "translational lift", which I gather has something to do with airspeed. A little hazy on the details. Can you educate us?
Thanks,
Wes

 

[Husky]

Yes it did. One more quick question. I hear rotary pilots talk about "translational lift", which I gather has something to do with airspeed. A little hazy on the details. Can you educate us?
Thanks,
Wes

Very basically; 'Translational Lift' is this odd period main rotor lift is transitioning from a hovering rotor system to a rotorcraft's main rotor commencing in forward flight as it sheds the recirculating air it has accumulated by hovering lift into a fresh new rotor flight dynamic of forward lift. (hovering - being very inefficient lift creation wise as well as fuel and engine power consuming).

Typically, at around 15-25 knots forward airspeed, this recycling air begins move behind the turning blades and the blades receive this 'new and fresh' incoming air increasing blade efficiency, lift and overall performance of each blade and the entire rotor system. There is normally and slight lateral shudder of the airframe as the rotor system proceeds through this for a second or two...then, power to maintain flight is significantly reduced as well as fuel consumption and the aircraft begins kinda flying like an airplane.

It also occurs in reverse...or coming from forward flight to a hover.

The graphic below is very simplistic...but may get the point across:

 

[Husky]

Would this help?

Small story:


Anecdotal Times

Finessing the girl


Take off for Albania, summer 1996

Our detachment of four UH-60A's self-deployed to Tirana Albania for a sixty day joint exercise that I actually have no fucking clue why we should go there. Except, maybe as a diplomatic overture of friendship and cooperation, seeing as we are part of the first U.S. Army units to set foot in that country since the fall of the Soviet Union and break up of the Warsaw Pact.

We took off from our base Ansbach, Germany in some seriously over laden beat up and abused Alfa model Hawks. Every bird is near maximum structural gross weight (or exceeding it slightly) primarily due to the fact we mounted the Extended Range Fuel System (ERFS) wings and 2 X 230 gallons external tanks, plus stuffing in all the living and maintenance support shit one has to have to operate self sufficient for 60 days or so. I took the aircraft with the weakest set of engines, just because I got the most flight experience of the team and I didn't want any of these pussy ass pilots to bitch and moan or use "marginal power" as an excuse if they happened to ball one up; again, because none of these weenies have really operated our aircraft where power management is critical before, so allow me to whine about it here. I took all the pilots out the week prior on nearly an hour flight each to simulate and practice power limited; take-offs, and approaches then tossed a few emergency procedures for good measure.

I know my bird is gunna be heavy and the old girl is weak – so I've done two engine washes on the gal, as we fondly refer to them as 'douches', to clean the turbines; hoping that'll maybe allow me just another sliver or two more percent of power engine reserve – hell one half of one percent would be cool.

I'm lead ship, planning to depart on our little runway here (and ya, I mean it's little), but seeing how there's a 5 to 7 knot cross wind, and, well, I want every damn knot of wind on my nose (headwind) as possible today I decide to launch our little band of aircraft from the adjacent grass field heading diagonally away from the tiny runway. Unfortunately not a wind full in the face headwind, but better than a complete crosswind. I'll have to settle for quartering left headwind to avoid over flight of the high school – I mean if even an engine hiccups anywhere along takeoff – rotor RPM is going to drop faster than Paris Hiltons panties and we'll be joining some teacher's classroom. It's better to take flight over the football field and then the only other obstacles; the 12-foot high fence a quarter of a mile away and the light poles of the high school football field, but we can fly between them.

Finesse Mister, finesse this girl, like the time you did on that one wheel landing at 10,000 feet atop that boulder to drop off those firefighters in Yellowstone.

Smooth boy, smooth.

Everyone's lined up. I reposition my hands and fingers on the controls, light touch, very light. Left thumb, index and middle finger in the outside edge of the collective stick. The right thumb and middle finger lightly riding on the cyclic stick. Feet light on the pedals to feel her torque. It seems like I have to pull the collective up to my arm pit just to get this heavy girl light on the wheels, and she's groaning as first the right wheel slowly leaves the ground and then the left wheel (this is known as Translating Tendency Effect) then the tail wheel very smoothly rises from the ground as I tenderly apply left pedal to counteract the main rotor torque. She hovers in a much more level attitude, not so much nose high like normal because of the external fuel weight forward on her frame.

She feels good, heavy as hell, but good.

I continue to very slowly increase power to get to our standard 10-foot hover height for a power/weight check. I can hear the engines wailing, giving all they can give, but my baby won't go, eight feet is as high as she'll hover and I'm at maximum power or 96% torque.

Ya, we're going to have to milk this one together sweetie.

OK, that's enough power check for me I allow the aircraft to settle down 3 feet, to a 5 foot hover. Confirmed. We are fat like four motherfuckers, maybe five. I'm guessing I'm about 500-800 lbs over maximum structural gross weight with 3% power to spare at a damn 5-foot hover – Christ!

I already hear a couple of pilots whining over the radio as they call in completing their power checks. Seems everyone else has 6-8% power to spare. Fuckers.

Glancing at my co-pilot: "You wanna do the take-off?"

"OH Hell NO!! You see everyone looking at us? The commander, the rest of the company, our wives and kids all standing by the hanger?" "Shit, AFN is here with a camera!"

"I know. I was thinking if we can't get enough altitude and snag that fence, its gunna be slightly embarrassing - and, well… I wanna be able to blame it on someone else."

Hmmm, OK, guess not.

As I instructed last week, in severely power limited situations – this is not a time to bad ass jerk handle this bird like some rabid lust fuck, this lady will slap you down hard, and at your own peril if you disrespect her. She requires an intimate sensual interlude, with soft and caressing touches, hints and tender gliding control, intently listening and feeling the responses of what she needs and desires. It is plainly, tender gentle sex.

I tell my co-pilot; "Watch my power, rotor RPM, and TGT (engine temperatures). We only got 3% power available to fuck with so I may ride rotor RPM down to 96-97% at maximum power – no worries – cool?"

"Ahh ya 96-97% rotor RPM…if gets lower start worrying." My co-pilots responds.

"Exactly." "Chief, keep an eye outside on the main landing gear would you? The aircraft will descend a few feet on this takeoff, just keep me read in when we got maybe 2 feet between the ground and the wheel – cool?"

"Yes sir."

OK, now let's split." Pressing the mic switch to the second detent; "Break. Flight, 23 is on the go."

Then by virtually thinking, and no perceivable control input – she starts hovering forward very slowly, then to walking speed, and then slightly faster then a walking pace.

Good girl. You feel great.

I motion up tenderly just a cunt hair on the collective – There! Max power of 96% Torque with both engines at TGT limiting and rotor RPM dipping to 99%.

Com'on, ride it honey.

As Effective Transational Lift (ETL) nears the aircraft will shudder slightly and may drop in altitude a few feet. This occurs because basically the aircraft out flies all that old nasty recycling air that circles through the rotor system at a hover (and eats up significant power) and begins entering fresh undisturbed air (requiring less power than moments prior to ETL). Ya, I know this is fascinating shit, but it's a significant aerodynamic phenomenon, particularly today, particularly on this take-off, because – Like, I need to get to ETL so I have more fucking power available, so I can get this fat lady over the rapidly approaching 12 foot barb wire wrapped fence, before we play like a fly caught in the spider web with it.

Our speed is slowly but constantly increasing – 10 knots. I can feel it, your struggling girl. Her nose wants to climb (Blowback Effect) – No, no honey, not yet, as I hold her nose level with care.

"Rotor RPM 98%."

"Copy."

We are about half way to the fence. Just passing a street light a ways off to my left that I'm using as my point of no return marker. Well damn – maybe that was not a good one - should I pick another one real quick?

"Rotor RPM 97%"

"Copy"

A smidge of left cyclic to maintain my ground track – I cannot let the wind or translating tendency keep us off our intended ground track. I have an urge, a real urge to pull more power (collective) so we can climb – but knowing fully it won't work, the engines computers have sensed 850 degrees Celsius TGT which equates this morning to be 96 % Torque and it sends a signal to the fuel control to sequence fuel on and off to maintain and not exceed that temperature to protect the engines. My engines are giving everything they can. Pulling up collective, while having an immediate, and quite temporary, psychologically satisfying and comforting feeling, will…be like very bad, as the big fan above my head will slow considerably unable to provide hardly any sustaining lift and we will crash. Not good, and it would be bad for my self-image.

"96% Rotor RPM!"

We are over three quarters of the way there. 20 Knots, Com'on babe. I feel ya, you're close…A slight shudder…the aircraft begins settling…more lateral shuddering (Transverse Flow Effect)…

"Sir, wheels are about a foot of the grass."

"Ya ya, let's hope there are no ant hills." Com'on babe I know you can do it.

25 knots.

You're there babe! Immediately followed by a pronounced lateral shudder and shaking of the aircraft because of our weight and the slow measured takeoff, as my girl begins to lift in a positive climb in our wonderful new fresh air aerodynamic environment as we cross 8-10 feet above the fence in between the light poles.

Ok, Mr. Mister lower the power and let the rotor RPM comes back to 100%, now let's tag a 65-knot attitude for climb out.

Hot damn! Babe you are soooo sweet to run my fingers over. Are we good together or what?

Well, that was fun. Whew.

 

[XBe02Drvr]

Finessing the girl

"You've violated your PG13 limits and are in X-rated territory now. Expect extremely limited distribution of your productions from now on."
But a helluva story!

Nice explanation. Light now shines upon the topic. Leads to one more question. So if you're hover-climbing up a steep hillside with rock outcroppings and other obstacles under an indefinite 100 ft ceiling with a forward RVR of 400-600, aren't you more or less perpetually in the "transition to forward flight" mode, half in and half out of the "dirty" air and thrashing the bejesus out of your powerplant, transmission, and rotor system? Sounds ugly, specially if hot and heavy.
Thanks again,
Wes