SaparotRob
Unter Gemeine Geschwader Murmeltier XIII
Dinner is served.
Korean airline emergency landing goes wrong and many killed
- Thread starter MiTasol
- Start date
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- Thread starter
- #62
MiTasol
Captain
According to the Chef, the most tender kangaroo meal I had was prepared by hitting it perfectly head on at exactly 58kmh with a 1968 Toyota Corolla.
I do not know what his real secret was but I did enjoy his claim that it was road kill.
I do not know what his real secret was but I did enjoy his claim that it was road kill.
Alan Stevens
Airman 1st Class
- 179
- May 24, 2023
And it turns out the pilots shut off the "good" engine after the bird strike.
"The South Korea-led investigation into Jeju Air's plane crash in December has "clear evidence" that pilots shut off the less-damaged engine after a bird strike, a source with knowledge of the probe said on Monday.
The source said the evidence, including the cockpit voice recorder, computer data and a physical engine switch found in the wreckage showed pilots shut off the left engine instead of the right engine when taking emergency steps after a bird strike just before it was scheduled to land."
"The South Korea-led investigation into Jeju Air's plane crash in December has "clear evidence" that pilots shut off the less-damaged engine after a bird strike, a source with knowledge of the probe said on Monday.
The source said the evidence, including the cockpit voice recorder, computer data and a physical engine switch found in the wreckage showed pilots shut off the left engine instead of the right engine when taking emergency steps after a bird strike just before it was scheduled to land."
- Thread starter
- #65
MiTasol
Captain
Given the ambiguity on which engine had the bird strike(s) the less damaged engine may have shown in the cockpit indications first so we cannot at this time rule out the possibility that the crew made the best decision based on the information available. Regardless this is a tragedy on too many levels and we still need to wait for the full report to find out the probable cause.
If that wall had not been there there may well have been survivors.
If that wall had not been there there may well have been survivors.
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Agreed, there is no way to definitively tell.
- Thread starter
- #67
MiTasol
Captain
Here is the actual cause of many of the fatalities though. Filling in the ground between the end of the runway and the localisers may have made the death toll far lower.
They did everything wrong. They should have continued the approach, without shutting down the affected engine. The reason they all died was the Go-Around, simple as that.
- Thread starter
- #70
MiTasol
Captain
As a qualified ICAO Annex 13 aviation accident and incident investigator I completely and totally disagree with you for multiple reasons.
For beginners - when an engine fire warning system activates you always shut down that engine. No exceptions. Ever.
In this case it happened to be the only engine keeping the aircraft in the air so their options were the runway, the grass, or the water. Under normal circumstances the runway IS considered the best option. Grass has lumps and drains, etc, that can, in the worst case, cause the aircraft to slew and dig in a wingtip and cartwheel. Water is good if you can touch down level but a low wing can again cause cartwheels. Even if the landing goes well there is a concern that passengers might drown. What most people, including this aircrew, did not realise is how far a modern streamlined aircraft will slide on a good smooth runway. Obviously airlines will already be ensuring that aircrew are aware of this.
Note that engine installations are designed to break free and flip above the wing to prevent slewing but in this case the "landing" was too smooth to provide the loads required for this to happen.
IF the navaids had been correctly mounted (on breakaway fittings) and the area between the runway and the base of the navaids had been filled in there MAY have been no fatalities but that is totally dependent on what the terrain is like once an aircraft knocks over the navaids. From what little I have seen that terrain is far from ideal.
I will wait for the official report. There are signs that it will be a political whitewash and ignore all the airport deficiencies but that is only conjecture at this time. Many of the findings will, however, still be valid.
For beginners - when an engine fire warning system activates you always shut down that engine. No exceptions. Ever.
In this case it happened to be the only engine keeping the aircraft in the air so their options were the runway, the grass, or the water. Under normal circumstances the runway IS considered the best option. Grass has lumps and drains, etc, that can, in the worst case, cause the aircraft to slew and dig in a wingtip and cartwheel. Water is good if you can touch down level but a low wing can again cause cartwheels. Even if the landing goes well there is a concern that passengers might drown. What most people, including this aircrew, did not realise is how far a modern streamlined aircraft will slide on a good smooth runway. Obviously airlines will already be ensuring that aircrew are aware of this.
Note that engine installations are designed to break free and flip above the wing to prevent slewing but in this case the "landing" was too smooth to provide the loads required for this to happen.
IF the navaids had been correctly mounted (on breakaway fittings) and the area between the runway and the base of the navaids had been filled in there MAY have been no fatalities but that is totally dependent on what the terrain is like once an aircraft knocks over the navaids. From what little I have seen that terrain is far from ideal.
I will wait for the official report. There are signs that it will be a political whitewash and ignore all the airport deficiencies but that is only conjecture at this time. Many of the findings will, however, still be valid.
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Alan Stevens
Airman 1st Class
- 179
- May 24, 2023
An airliner approaching the airport perimeter on the ground at 150 mph is a non-survivable crash. Any survivors is a near-miracle.
I have reviewed GMSV.
Beyond the ILS array --
-- 200 feet to concrete wall that marks the airport perimeter
-- 900, 1,100 and 1,400 feet to series of buildings
-- 350 feet to road and its embankment
Any of these would tear apart a plane moving that fast.
- Thread starter
- #72
MiTasol
Captain
Though the aircraft would have decellerated somewhat travelling across grass before hitting the navaids, and later the buildings, if the ground was filled and the navaids had been correctly mounted the engines would have been ripped off at or before the navaids and the pylon remains and damage to the belly caused by the navaid mountings would have decellerated the aircraft somewhat quicker. This MAY have allowed survivors. Not would have. MAY have as I said earlier.
Yes there is a perimeter wall but there have been accidents before where an aircraft hit a wall or other solid object and there were survivors. In many cases that caused the aircraft to break up in such a way that people were able to escape.
For an example the Dallas crash in 1985 had survivors despite hitting a massive water tank and being converted to confetti. Two of those survivors sustained ZERO injuries and ten sustained minor injuries. See
View: https://www.reddit.com/r/CatastrophicFailure/comments/smr1hi/on_august_2_1985_freakishly_strong_downdrafts/
Yes there is a perimeter wall but there have been accidents before where an aircraft hit a wall or other solid object and there were survivors. In many cases that caused the aircraft to break up in such a way that people were able to escape.
For an example the Dallas crash in 1985 had survivors despite hitting a massive water tank and being converted to confetti. Two of those survivors sustained ZERO injuries and ten sustained minor injuries. See
View: https://www.reddit.com/r/CatastrophicFailure/comments/smr1hi/on_august_2_1985_freakishly_strong_downdrafts/
