Lasers!!
- Thread starter FLYBOYJ
- Start date
Ad: This forum contains affiliate links to products on Amazon and eBay. More information in Terms and rules
GrauGeist
Generalfeldmarschall zur Luftschiff Abteilung
Joe, didn't the USAF do something comparable in the late 80's?
I remember a conversation with my former father in law who worked at Northrup (at the time), about laser counter-measures.
I remember a conversation with my former father in law who worked at Northrup (at the time), about laser counter-measures.
- Thread starter
- #4
FLYBOYJ
"THE GREAT GAZOO"
You might be right - I heard some rumblings about airborne defensive lasers back in the F-117A days. Maybe someone's concept but not far off from reality.
vikingBerserker
Lieutenant General
They did, it was based on the C-135 thought I don't know if it did multi shoot downs. The last time I was at Wright Patterson the aircraft was sitting off to the side though it did not look like it had flown in awhile. It had the laser mounted on the top
GrauGeist
Generalfeldmarschall zur Luftschiff Abteilung
Ahh...found it: Project Eighth Card/Project Delta via ARPA, ran from the 70's through the 80's and has long since evolved into more advanced projects.
The first downing of an aircraft was 13 November 1973 at Kirtland AFB New Mexico, when a Northrop MQM-33b was holed by a ground-based laser beam. The laser penetrated the aft fuselage and severed it's flight controls, putting the drone into a fatal downward spiral.
The first downing of an aircraft was 13 November 1973 at Kirtland AFB New Mexico, when a Northrop MQM-33b was holed by a ground-based laser beam. The laser penetrated the aft fuselage and severed it's flight controls, putting the drone into a fatal downward spiral.
Cool!
Frickin Lasers!
I saw that plane at Wright-Patterson, interestingly it had the name Millennium Falcon on the side...no joke.
I saw that plane at Wright-Patterson, interestingly it had the name Millennium Falcon on the side...no joke.
vikingBerserker
Lieutenant General
I was born at Kirkland!!! Here is the pic I snapped on 07/28/2013:
special ed
1st Sergeant
- 5,142
- May 13, 2018
In 1979 at a training session at Kodak we were shown an hour and 45 minute movie on laser technology. It was in preparation for bar code technology coding for microfilming retrieval systems.. The same stuff in stores today to read purchases. In the movie, I was impressed by a military application in which the laser was on one ridge and the target was on another ridge. The target was a tracked vehicle moving quite fast for a tracked unit. In the brief time it was visible, at some distance, I thought it might be an M-18 light tank. The laser unit was an M-113 pulling another M-113 which had been made into a trailer with the nose bobbed. Power plant was in the trailer and laser on top of first half of the duo. The target came into view moving at least 35-40 mph and the narrator says "now the laser is switched on" and I watched amazed as it followed the erratic movement on the distant ridge. The narrator says "and now fires". The target immediately skidded to a stop in a cloud of dust with no fire, smoke or explosion. The drawback back then was the size and lack of mobility of the power supply. Even in the machines we were training on required a considerable power supply for a small laser.
fubar57
General
MIflyer
1st Lieutenant
When I was with the Thor program they proposed to shoot down a Thor with the NKC-135. The idea was to shoot down Soviet SLBMs when they came out of the water. Concerns over the ABM Treaty put a stop to that.
During that same time they tried to see if a laser could blind an AIM-9, the idea being that if you heated the nose of the missile it could not see the heat coming from the airplane. The problem was that they did not want to risk actually hitting the NKC-135 with an AIM-9, even if it had an inert warhead. So they fired the missile from too far away to actually hit the 135 and then found that at that range you could not figure out if you had affected the missile.
During that same time they tried to see if a laser could blind an AIM-9, the idea being that if you heated the nose of the missile it could not see the heat coming from the airplane. The problem was that they did not want to risk actually hitting the NKC-135 with an AIM-9, even if it had an inert warhead. So they fired the missile from too far away to actually hit the 135 and then found that at that range you could not figure out if you had affected the missile.
Thor was "rods from god" right?
MIflyer
1st Lieutenant
No, Thor as in, SM-75, SLV-2, LV-2F, LV-2D, etc.. I was the USAF program manager. Although the one shown below was long before my time!
Last edited:
mikewint
Captain
They are definitely chool BUT and there are several of them starting with the $Billons$ spent on development and that custom 747 prototype that were complete flops back in the Reagan years.
Now the new solid state Lasers are much better then that that old chemically driven one but Lasers are still light beams and anything that interferes with ordinary light will affect the laser beam. Dust, clouds, rain, snow will block the beam and a simple mirror will reflect the beam. Not exactly your Buck-Rodgers Death Ray Gun
Then there is the vast amount of energy that has to be pumped into that laser beam for it to be effective. We're talking about hundreds of kilowatts to a megawatt of energy supplied to the Laser. That requires a good sized generator which is heavy. Present day solid state lasers still require 77lbs (35kg) of power plant per kilowatt, hence the big 747-type aircraft to get the laser aloft.
Add the detecting and targeting systems and you've got quite a load to get aloft. Additionally that big plane needs protection. A few 30mm cannon rounds and your multi-million dollar laser is dead
Now the new solid state Lasers are much better then that that old chemically driven one but Lasers are still light beams and anything that interferes with ordinary light will affect the laser beam. Dust, clouds, rain, snow will block the beam and a simple mirror will reflect the beam. Not exactly your Buck-Rodgers Death Ray Gun
Then there is the vast amount of energy that has to be pumped into that laser beam for it to be effective. We're talking about hundreds of kilowatts to a megawatt of energy supplied to the Laser. That requires a good sized generator which is heavy. Present day solid state lasers still require 77lbs (35kg) of power plant per kilowatt, hence the big 747-type aircraft to get the laser aloft.
Add the detecting and targeting systems and you've got quite a load to get aloft. Additionally that big plane needs protection. A few 30mm cannon rounds and your multi-million dollar laser is dead
MIflyer
1st Lieutenant
The NKC-135 was fitted with a chemical laser that was based on the rocket engine used in the X-15. Rocketdyne became involved with lasers in the 1980's because of the similarity between the demands of chemical lasers and rocket engines.
The first launch of the Soviet Energia booster carried a prototype space based laser battle station. It suffered a failure during ascent and attained a geosynchronous orbit below sea level.
The first launch of the Soviet Energia booster carried a prototype space based laser battle station. It suffered a failure during ascent and attained a geosynchronous orbit below sea level.
Fascinating
Hate to break it to you, but that doesn't count as an orbit in astronautical terms...
special ed
1st Sergeant
- 5,142
- May 13, 2018
Back in post 10, I mentioned an informational movie for introduction to lasers. I am pretty sure it was a BBC production and if so maybe those with access to past media could find it. Although now obsolete, the info was about exciting crystals, ruby and diamond. One thing impressive was how quickly it cut through steel. Once the depth of the hole got much beyond an inch or so, the smoke blocked further cutting, so the solution was a pulsed laser. Each time the pulse occurred, a puff of smoke shot out. When the pulse rate was optimum, the laser went right through thick steel. It looked like a model steam locomotive.
mikewint
Captain
The pulsing is to allow the laser to build up power and that "smoke" is vaporized steel. LOTS of ventilation required any time lasers are used in such a fashion. The pulses also literally 'impact' the steel and cause it to vibrate giving off a sonic tone equal to the pulse rate of the laser.
As impressive as all that appears remember that the laser is that 'powerful' BECAUSE of its focus to a small point/area. Identical to using a lens/mirror to focus the suns rays to a tiny point. A 50kg(110lb) woman can exert 1760psi (12135kPa) or more at the point of her high-heel shoe.
As I posted earlier it is still LIGHT and can be reflected, refracted, absorbed by atmospheric conditions.
As impressive as all that appears remember that the laser is that 'powerful' BECAUSE of its focus to a small point/area. Identical to using a lens/mirror to focus the suns rays to a tiny point. A 50kg(110lb) woman can exert 1760psi (12135kPa) or more at the point of her high-heel shoe.
As I posted earlier it is still LIGHT and can be reflected, refracted, absorbed by atmospheric conditions.
