Leading Edge Slats

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Hard to see out the front without looking through the sight

Things never got better, maybe worse for the last in the line



Cheers

Steve
 

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Frontal visibility from a 109 was terrible, they had to offset the gunsight for that reason!

Do you play computer games Shooter?
 

Are we talking about the same BoB that happened over Europe in 1940? Admittedly, my knowledge is not up to snuff the way I want it to be on the subject, but at what point were the hapless Spitfires and Hurricanes being blown from the sky and not returning in kind? Um, even wikipedia isn't that... flawed.
 
To summarise, the LW shot down more SE fighters than the RAF, the RAF shot down more German aircraft in total, thats why it ended.

The LW fighters on their perch saw the last 50 fighters come and go then another last 50 and then another, finally over London another 50 appeared and the game was up.
 
Shooter * also doesn't know what 'freijagd' entailed. It did not involve sitting above the bombers waiting for the RAF to come up and play, that would have been an escort. A 'freijagd' was a fighter sweep in our terms, just over half of all Bf 109 sorties throughout the BoB period were 'freijagd'.
The British simply tried to ignore them, they couldn't do any real damage. Late in the battle, to avoid scrambling fighters to intercept fighter sweeps, indistinguishable on radar from any other raid, Fighter Command flew patrols over the Channel to report the compositon of incoming raids, enabling the filter room/controllers to simply ignore a formation of Bf 109s on a 'freijagd'.

My grand mother recalled waving brightly at what she thought was a low flying British aircraft only to see it open fire on a local railway station, probably a Bf 109 on a 'freijagd'. The station would have been one near Canterbury, but she was never sure which one.

Cheers

Steve
 
Some of the stuff posted here by our shooter-expert-on-all things BoB is very like a fairy tale - bl**dy Grimm !
I've seen some ill-informed b*ll*cks spouted before, but this one takes first prize - it's straight out of the offices of Marvel Comics, composed and edited by Mr. W. Mitty !!!
 
I should mention that my dear old grandma always said that the station strafing incident took place during the BoB period. I remember asking if it might have been later, because a little known series of raids by solitary fighters did take place later, in 1942. These were known as 'Stacheldraht' (barbed wire) operations and did specifically seek targets of opportunity, like a railway station. My grandmother was still in the Canterbury area at this time and human memory is, as we all know, fallible.
Cheers
Steve
 
If you exclude the fighting in Russia here the Luftwaffe aircraft and training were so superior to the Russian airforce whose aircraft were slaughtered the whole argument falls apart.
I would be interested to see what scores the Luftwaffe pilots achieved against the Spitfire. An aircraft most similar to the Me109/Fw190 during the war from beginning to the end.
 
Of the 103 German Aces with 100 kills, all but six achieved the majority of their success against Russian opponents on the Eastern or Arctic fronts.
 
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The origin of the inverted V adopted by the Germans goes back to 1928 and a sort of 'think tank' meeting on the future of aero engines. There were very many features deemed desirable. Tender documents were sent to Daimler-Benz, Junkers and B.M.W., all of which eventually produced a V-12 engine model in response although none was able to incorporate all of the required features immediately.
In 1980 Wolfram Eisenlohr, present at that meeting, was interviewed about the 1928 requirement for inverted V-12s and he cited three reasons for the decision, none of which were included in the tenders and none of which are technical specifications pertaining to the engine. These were
- more compact installation,
- better pilot view for single engined aircraft,
- less exhaust flame dazzle during night flying.
Whether the pilot view from a Bf 109 is in fact any better I doubt very much. Engines were a lot bigger and consequently the length in front of the pilot longer, but in 1928 it was a consideration.
Eisenlohr was a brilliant man, but his background was in naval aviation and in the 1920s this meant air ships.
Cheers
Steve
 
One could take a drawing of the 109 and Spit put in some line of sight lines > one straight ahead and one over the cowling.
 
I'll post some "3-view" layouts that may help give an idea of the line of sight forward of the cockpit on the various types.

The Spitfire's later types have a broader cowling that's difficult to see in the line drawings, that reduces the view "ahead and to the side" over the earlier types.

Click on the image to see the full resolution.
 
The Hurricane appears to have a better over the nose sight line than the Spitfire or 109. The cowl mounted machine guns offset any advantage of the inverted V.
 
I don't suppose there are photos looking out of the cockpit for any of these aircraft?
Most cockpit photos are of the instrument panel and so give a somewhat distorted view through the windscreen. Camera often being behind and above where the pilots eyes would be and aimed downward to capture the lower part of the panels/stick and perhaps rudder pedals. There may be photos take through the gun sight but they seem to be rare and that is the important view. View through windscreen side/corner panels and down the side of the engine being rather useless for aiming the guns.
 

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