Liberate, loot and rape.

Ad: This forum contains affiliate links to products on Amazon and eBay. More information in Terms and rules

v2

Captain
8,921
10,690
Nov 9, 2005
Cracow
"Can't you understand if a soldier who has crossed thousands of kilometres through blood and fire and death has fun with a woman or takes some trifle?" said Joseph Stalin when Yugoslav communist Milovan Djilas complained about the rapes the Red Army committed in his country.
The Red Army, from 1943 slowly pushing the Wehrmacht back west, was not the same force that two years before had been quickly retreating east. Only a fraction of the original servicemen were still in the ranks; at least a million had perished on the battlefield, three had been or would be starved in German POW camps, more got wounded. The Soviet command had learned to use some tactics but still operated on the 1941 principle of throwing masses of grunts at the enemy. Yet, these masses were hard to control and these grunts wanted revenge.
And spoils of war. To millions of Red Army servicemen such spoils of war were women, especially the foreign ones. Polish, Czech, Latvian, Estonian and Lithuanians females were seen as fair game, even though they were fellow victims of the Third Reich. Romanians, Hungarians and Slovaks even more so because they'd been Axis. The German and Austrian ones would be shown absolutely no mercy. In Yugoslavia, with its friendly Tito and communist National Liberation Army, only between 2,420 and 24,380 women were raped.
In Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania, numbers of victims ran into tens of thousands. In Czechoslovakia, between 10,000 and 20,000; in Poland, up to 100,000, especially in regions annexed by the Third Reich; in Romania, 335,200 in o n e m o n t h, from mid-September to mid-October 1944, and half a milion altogether; for Hungary it was worse, because the highest estimates say 800,000. Austrian women had it still worse than that: 70,000 to 100,000 in Vienna alone; in Germany it was 90,000 to 130,000 for Berlin, and 2 million in all Soviet-occupied regions.
Except this "army of rapists," as Natalya Gesse, a Soviet war correspondent, called it, attacked not only women but little girls as well ("eight to eighty"), and not only German females became victims in Germany. The army of rapists also brutalized Polish, Russian, Belorussian and Ukrainian women, who'd for years been suffering as slave laborers of the Third Reich: thousands of them, liberated from the camps, farms and factories, got violated either immediately, by the liberators, or on their way home, by rear echelon troops.
In addition to millions of rape victims, thousands of them murdered, sheer terror pushed more thousands to take their own lives. They did it either in the suicide wave sweeping across eastern Germany before the Red Army came – like whole families drowning themselves in the town of Demmin – or afterwards, to avoid more torment – like these five discovered at 5 Ziganstrasse in Striegau: "In the attic, next to one another are hanged two elderly women, one young woman, a girl about 20 years old and a girl, 10 -11 years, with traces of rape."
***
Yevgeny Khaldei, the author of the iconic photograph of Red Army servicemen raising the Soviet flag over the Reichstag, had some editing to do before it got published: one of the soldiers was wearing wristwatches on b o t h wrists.
When in March 1945 American, British and Canadian forces were crossing the Rhine in "Operation Plunder," the Red Army had been running its own operation plunder for over a year, from the moment it crossed the pre-war USSR borders. The Soviets were operating on a shoestring budget, so in addition to appropriating the spoils of war from the enemy, an average frontovnik used every opportunity to cash in the gratitude of the liberated peoples. Except these peoples remembered the 1939-1940 liberations, knew they didn't mean freedom, and felt no kind of profound gratitude.
On the rank and file level, it intesified in January 1945, just after Stalin allowed the troops to send home monthly parcels (five to fifteen kilograms, depending on rank) – which was nothing more than a state invitation to loot. The servicemen, suddenly exposed to alien material culture and luxury goods never owned before, plundered so many wristwatches, cameras, silk dresses and radios that separate rooms at train stations had to be dedicated to storing mountains of heavy boxes before the postal service could sort and send them on their way.
The state allowed the foot soldiers to do what it had been doing itself; back in March 1942, following the Moscow counter-offensive, it had set up so-called Trophy Commands, and after Stalingrad, a dedicated Trophy Committee. While these were perfectly reasonable efforts to collect and reuse enemy ordnance, the April 1944 order, specifying the responsibilities of trophy teams in the field, listed securing industrial machinery. Soon, the "liberated" territories, and then Axis countries saw plunder comparable only with looting by the Axis.
It accelerated with the birth of Trophy Brigades in early 1945; this 100,000-man army with a fleet of trucks and specializations grabbed everything of value, from machinery to pianos. Poland lost up to 1,000 factories, Hungary 90 per cent of its metalworking and engineering industries, Romania half of its railway stock, and Czechoslovakia 60 biggest enterprises. As soon as 2.6 million works of art and 6 million books from Germany rolled east, following the loot from Polish museums, 5,000 kilometers of tracks in Poland were dismantled and taken as well.
The loot, after a while called reparations, got stolen again in the USSR – like the 27,000 Polish and German cows, appropriated by 2,000 Belarussian party officials in 1945, or 3,000 meters of fabric, 1,470 pieces of dishware, 315 antique objects, 90 silver items, 41 carpets, 15 paintings, 359 pieces of feminine lingerie, 150 pairs of shoes, 60 dresses, 17 suits, 22 overcoats and furs, 323 pairs of stockings, 6 radios and 4 accordions, all found in the Moscow apartment of an army officer employed in the administration of the Soviet occupation zone.
***
It's true that the Soviets had suffered murder, rape and plunder by the German army – but responded in kind with random violence, political killing, rape and looting, extending that response to completely innocent nations.
It's true that on European fronts of WWII, German atrocities were unequalled – but if such a comparison is at all possible, the Soviet ones came close second.
***
source: Institute of National Remembrance (Poland)
Pictured, Soviet servicemen harassing a woman in Leipzig, 1945.
red army.jpg
 
In terms of numbers there was no real comparison, although the numbers for US and Allied rapine were never released. The US High Command's release of information and pursuit of criminal prosecution was quelled by the US military and civilian leadership. The war-time and post-war behavior of US servicemen re black-market and organized crime is an indicator of what I am referring to in terms of lack of information release/sharing with the public.

The rape of the German and Austrian women was actually somewhat encouraged by the Soviet command.

There is a reason that it was said in the 1960s that half the German population was only half German.

(My apologies to any German forum members/readers, I do not mean to be insensitive - only informative. Such behavior by all sides was inexcusable.)
 
Hey Alex Smart,

Was not your last post a repeat of your first post?

In case you are trying to emphasize the fact that 96 US servicemen were tried, found guilty, and executed for rape and that this is a significant number of rapes, I think you need to be aware that this was estimated to be less than 1/2 of 1% of the occurrences attributable to US servicemen in Europe during the war. In other words, 96 out of more than 20,000 rapes.

The number of rapes attributable to the Soviet forces was estimated to be in the 200,000+ range. I do not know if the Soviets made any attempt to prosecute during the war. I do know that post-war in occupied territories the Soviets cracked down on this kind of behavior in the occupation troops, though I do not think they executed the men responsible, only sent them back to their respective homelands.
 
Hey Alex Smart,

Was not your last post a repeat of your first post?

In case you are trying to emphasize the fact that 96 US servicemen were tried, found guilty, and executed for rape and that this is a significant number of rapes, I think you need to be aware that this was estimated to be less than 1/2 of 1% of the occurrences attributable to US servicemen in Europe during the war. In other words, 96 out of more than 20,000 rapes.

The number of rapes attributable to the Soviet forces was estimated to be in the 200,000+ range. I do not know if the Soviets made any attempt to prosecute during the war. I do know that post-war in occupied territories the Soviets cracked down on this kind of behavior in the occupation troops, though I do not think they executed the men responsible, only sent them back to their respective homelands.
I deleted what I see as a double post - I don't know if an attempt was being made to emphasize the list. If so I'd like to remind all about out rules against political discussions and this is no reflection on the OP.
 
What is the difference between the the USSR and Putin's army today? Stalin was a western accepted war criminal. The only difference between Stalin and Hitler is that one was condemned. and that Stalin was praised.

"He might be a sonofabitch, but he's our sonofabitch" was the attitude in American leadership circles, I think.
 
My grandmother had to travel from East of Danzig to the Western Germany by herself with four kids. One went missing and two died on the journey. There were many things she refused to speak of about that time. She got tears in her eyes every time she heard Russian.

My Grandmother as well.

I still have all the titles to our land and property there. Wonder if I should file a lawsuit to reclaim it. :D
 
My Grandmother as well.

I still have all the titles to our land and property there. Wonder if I should file a lawsuit to reclaim it. :D
Funny you say this. Couple of years back i ( 10 ish ) n the Czech republic was touring. Now this was beyond the fall of the wall and as i was a regular visitor one could see this nation getting colour. And i mean paint jobs.
What i understood that it was that now the flats belonged to the people living there . Accept for the land and building on the border. What i was told that straight after the war the cz-germans were made to leave. Massive coloms went east to Germany.
Now here is the wacky part. Untill Obama garenteed the border this was a waist land. Yes the lived there, no nothing would be done to conserve buildings. Because they might get back. ( i think lawyers not the 2nd armoured) it was a real fear. The last time i was there 2018 it starting to bloom. So if you have a claim...be fast.real estate changing fast now there.
 
Funny you say this. Couple of years back i ( 10 ish ) n the Czech republic was touring. Now this was beyond the fall of the wall and as i was a regular visitor one could see this nation getting colour. And i mean paint jobs.
What i understood that it was that now the flats belonged to the people living there . Accept for the land and building on the border. What i was told that straight after the war the cz-germans were made to leave. Massive coloms went east to Germany.
Now here is the wacky part. Untill Obama garenteed the border this was a waist land. Yes the lived there, no nothing would be done to conserve buildings. Because they might get back. ( i think lawyers not the 2nd armoured) it was a real fear. The last time i was there 2018 it starting to bloom. So if you have a claim...be fast.real estate changing fast now there.

That is where my wife's grandmother is from. She is a CZ German (Sudetenland Germany). She was a little girl when they were forced from their homes.

My Grandmother was from the Danzig area. I do in fact have the titles for our land, properties, and mines. They are from the early 1900s.

I'm only joking about re-claiming my families land though. This is ancient history by now,
 
That is where my wife's grandmother is from. She is a CZ German (Sudetenland Germany). She was a little girl when they were forced from their homes.

My Grandmother was from the Danzig area. I do in fact have the titles for our land, properties, and mines. They are from the early 1900s.

I'm only joking about re-claiming my families land though. This is ancient history by now,
Danzig. You might be able to afford your own seaplane facility. I think the Dollar is strong right now. Then talk to Boeing to restart the 314.
 
This plus the Soviets were not an existential threat to the US prior to their gaining nuclear weapons. The National Socialist Regime was.

Were the German's a real threat to the US? Europe, yes, but the US? I doubt it. How would they have ever attacked the US in a manner that would threaten its security or existence?
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Back