M.I.5/M.I.6/SAS

[the lancaster kicks ass]

ppfff, couldn't even come up with their own motto

 

[Clave]

I doubt there is a huge difference between the skill of any of the Special Forces round the world, but the SAS were there originals and get kudos form me for that...

 

[Nonskimmer]

When did they remove the "He" from the SAS motto? Wasn't it always "He Who Dares Wins"?

Adler, isn't GSG-9 only supposed to operate within the borders of Germany? That was supposedly the reason for the creation of the KSK in 1995. They're not bound by that rule, and can look after German interests abroad. The first batch of them were trained by the SAS if I'm not mistaken. I'm not really sure who trained the first JTF guys in 1993.

 

[plan_D]

The SAS lads train a lot of people. They're Britain's mercenaries.

 

[cheddar cheese]

When did they remove the "He" from the SAS motto? Wasn't it always "He Who Dares Wins"?

I think that was actually Derek Trotters motto.

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

When did they remove the "He" from the SAS motto? Wasn't it always "He Who Dares Wins"?

Adler, isn't GSG-9 only supposed to operate within the borders of Germany? That was supposedly the reason for the creation of the KSK in 1995. They're not bound by that rule, and can look after German interests abroad. The first batch of them were trained by the SAS if I'm not mistaken. I'm not really sure who trained the first JTF guys in 1993.

I worked with GSG-9 in Kosovo back in 2002 to 2003. Here is also an interesting tidbit that a lot of people dont probably know but I also talked to some GSG-9 in Baghdad last year.......

Just need to add something though. For the most part you are correct. The GSG-9 are under the Federal Border Police. The reason they are strickly only to be allowed to be used in the borders (the reason they were in Kosovo and Iraq was to protect German diplomats) is because of the fact that until recently Germany was not allowed to leave its borders and it military was only for national defense. The KSK was formed as a real Commando Unit in that sense.

 

[Nonskimmer]

I see. Cool.

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

I however have very little information on the KSK. I do not know what there main areas are. I believe it to be anti terrorist.

 

[Nonskimmer]

GSG-9 sounds to be a lot like what I know of JTF-2. Counter-terrorism, hostage rescue, and I know they've guarded Canadian diplomats abroad from time to time. Beyond that, I don't really know squat. I believe Hussars when he says they do a bit more though because like he said, they're the only true special forces unit in the Canadian Forces. The Army's commandos would be the next closest thing that I'm aware of.

Counter-terrorist duties within Canada used to be handled mainly by a subunit of the RCMP called the SERT, but they were stood down in 1993 when JTF-2 was formed.

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

That sounds about right.

 

[102first_hussars]

I doubt there is a huge difference between the skill of any of the Special Forces round the world, but the SAS were there originals and get kudos form me for that...

I could be mistaken but Im pretty sure the first official SF group was the Canadian-American "Devils Brigade".

 

[Nonskimmer]

Actually, I think the SAS was first. It was formed in 1941 I believe, in North Africa, whereas the First Special Service Force (Devil's Brigade) was formed in June of 1942. Plus, the Devil's Brigade was only a temporary idea anyway, not that it has to do with anything. They disbanded in January of 1945.

 

[Maestro]

I think NS is right. I heard somewhere that the first commando unit was created in Britain by Colonel Dodley Clark during WW II (sorry if I made any mistake in his name).

 

[plan_D]

I could throw a spanner into the works and mentioned the LRDG (Long Range Desert Group) who were formed before the SAS, and were a special desert recon group. Do we consider these special forces?

 

[trackend]

Definatley the LRDG was an elite force D also around was the Kampfschwimmers Flottiglia Mezzi d'Assalto.
And as you say D (Special Boat Section)

 

[plan_D]

I think to define "Special Forces" would help in which were the first. After all, élite bands of warriors causing havoc amongst the enemy goes back to the Ancient times when organised conflict began.

The LRDG were an amazing group of people. To travel hundreds of miles over desert during freezing nights, and boiling days while avoiding German patrols and without getting lost is almost unbelievable. It kind of downgrades their contribution when everyone knows them as a taxi service for the SAS.

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

I will agree and throw them all in the mix. I believe the first "real" Spec Ops unit though on a large scale was the SAS.

 

[trackend]

I would say the LRDG where the first of the British WW2 elite forces as they where involved in combat missions in Sept 1940 When David Sterling was still in number 8 commando a year before he started the SAS in Nov 1941 after this the SAS did used the LRDG's expertise to get them to their missions behind enemy lines however before the SAS came on the scene with the normal patrol compliment of 40 men toting ten Lewis guns and numerous other weapons including Boyes,Bren's etc they by no means where ever just a taxi firm ending up with 300 men in their ranks carrying out anti Oasis raids, this caused the Italian armies major problems and some believe slowed its progress considerably.

 

[plan_D]

Of course but most people who know of them think all they did was drive the SAS back and forth. I've seen it on loads of documentaries. With that said though that would be a hard enough job as it is.

 

[102first_hussars]

Oh speaking of SAS, I just watched the Movie Bravo two zero, that was some pretty hardcore sh*t they went through, I had no Idea they ended up as P.O.Ws