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Does anyone have a copy of Centaurus XVIII & 57 Aero-Engines AP No. 4146B Vol II Part 3, which I understand is the "Repair and Conditioning" section? Whilst I am particularly after Vol II Part 3, I'll take anything from AP4146B.

I am digging around the engine failures on Sea Furies. From what I have uncovered, the Sea Fury has a high incidence of engine failures regardless of which engine is installed.

The R-2800 and R-3350 generally have more prop overspeeds and carb problems, and the Centaurus usually self destructs. Having said that, they have all failed numerous ways.

I have begun to see a common link between all the catastrophic engine failures, and I hope to get something written up before the two Tempest II's start flying.
 
Simon Thomas said:
Does anyone have a copy of Centaurus XVIII & 57 Aero-Engines AP No. 4146B Vol II Part 3, which I understand is the "Repair and Conditioning" section? Whilst I am particularly after Vol II Part 3, I'll take anything from AP4146B.

I am digging around the engine failures on Sea Furies. From what I have uncovered, the Sea Fury has a high incidence of engine failures regardless of which engine is installed.

The R-2800 and R-3350 generally have more prop overspeeds and carb problems, and the Centaurus usually self destructs. Having said that, they have all failed numerous ways.

I have begun to see a common link between all the catastrophic engine failures, and I hope to get something written up before the two Tempest II's start flying.
Click to expand...

A great project so please let us all know the outcome when you have time.

One thing I have come across that results in engine failures on dry sump engine is so freaking obvious that you would expect everyone to know it but I know of multiple cases where these blindingly obvious actions were not carried out.

Any time a dry sump engine fails, as well as changing the engine, it is absolutely critical that the following items are carried out.

  • Replace the oil cooler(s)
  • Replace or totally purge the oil tank. Purging of some tanks is #$%^&* near impossible as the debris collects in the welded seams on certain designs of tanks. Tanks must be fully disassembled to purge properly. EVERY single fitting and access panel must be removed and cleaned.
  • Remove every single pipe and hose in the system and thoroughly clean them. NO exceptions.
  • Remove and clean all the other components, like the Y valves etc, and thoroughly clean them.

Failure to do all the above means the new oil you add to the new engine will pick up the very fine metal particles trapped in the system and guarantees the new engine will fail - possibly within minutes of first start.

I have also seen clowns fit new plumbing with tight radius bends that obstruct the oil flow into the engines while fitting clean kits instead of keeping wide sweeping bends that do not restrict oil flow.

I do not know about the Centaurus but with the Hercules it was critical that the correct oil was used. Merely topping up using the standard oils resulted in the oil foaming and that naturally causes engine failures.
 
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MiTasol said:
A great project so please let us all know the outcome when you have time.

One thing I have come across that results in engine failures on dry sump engine is so freaking obvious that you would expect everyone to know it but I know of multiple cases where these blindingly obvious actions were not carried out.

Any time a dry sump engine fails, as well as changing the engine, it is absolutely critical that the following items are carried out.

  • Replace the oil cooler(s)
  • Replace or totally purge the oil tank. Purging of some tanks is #$%^&* near impossible as the debris collects in the welded seams on certain designs of tanks. Tanks must be fully disassembled to purge properly. EVERY single fitting and access panel must be removed and cleaned.
  • Remove every single pipe and hose in the system and thoroughly clean them. NO exceptions.
  • Remove and clean all the other components, like the Y valves etc, and thoroughly clean them.

Failure to do all the above means the new oil you add to the new engine will pick up the very fine metal particles trapped in the system and guarantees the new engine will fail - possibly within minutes of first start.

I have also seen clowns fit new plumbing with tight radius bends that obstruct the oil flow into the engines while fitting clean kits instead of keeping wide sweeping bends that do not restrict oil flow.

I do not know about the Centaurus but with the Hercules it was critical that the correct oil was used. Merely topping up using the standard oils resulted in the oil foaming and that naturally causes engine failures.
Click to expand...
I have done many investigations on LRU which failed for exactly the reasons you outline. Aircraft with any external coolers need the coolers flushed which I have learned requires bench flush. Simply using compressed air will not unblock all the passages. Tube and tank coolers are easier but those also. The action of cooling down hot deteriorated oil causes sludge to form, and this sludge is sticky. Because coolers are often aluminum, caustic cleaners are prohibited. Some shops will run Stoddard solvent which in my opinion is inadequate. A warmed or hot cleaning solution of solvent with surfactant (soap) ideally with a pressure ripple and at different flow rates and with back pressure is best. Also multiple flow reversal is best. I have seen engines damaged due to heat exchangers that were just serviced but investigation found hydraulic cavities forming inside due to low total pressure (no back pressure on test rig) so the cleaner didn't touch the deposits that at had formed. Those clumps can shift off once installed and the new oil dislodges them and block the narrow passages. Sorry this is a bit dull. To summarize, be certain all oil system is properly cleaned by a shop who is following the instructions and has validated that their process is effective. I have observed heat exchangers that pass pressure drop requirements but had a portion of passages blocked (spec too relaxed). While I ramble I have picked up LRU off stores shelf at operator where the tag said pulled from failed engine. So their intent was to time continue the LRU but not worry about what the donor engine had done to the LRU.
 
RichardSuhkoi said:
I have done many investigations on LRU which failed for exactly the reasons you outline. Aircraft with any external coolers need the coolers flushed which I have learned requires bench flush. Simply using compressed air will not unblock all the passages. Tube and tank coolers are easier but those also. The action of cooling down hot deteriorated oil causes sludge to form, and this sludge is sticky. Because coolers are often aluminum, caustic cleaners are prohibited. Some shops will run Stoddard solvent which in my opinion is inadequate. A warmed or hot cleaning solution of solvent with surfactant (soap) ideally with a pressure ripple and at different flow rates and with back pressure is best. Also multiple flow reversal is best. I have seen engines damaged due to heat exchangers that were just serviced but investigation found hydraulic cavities forming inside due to low total pressure (no back pressure on test rig) so the cleaner didn't touch the deposits that at had formed. Those clumps can shift off once installed and the new oil dislodges them and block the narrow passages. Sorry this is a bit dull. To summarize, be certain all oil system is properly cleaned by a shop who is following the instructions and has validated that their process is effective. I have observed heat exchangers that pass pressure drop requirements but had a portion of passages blocked (spec too relaxed). While I ramble I have picked up LRU off stores shelf at operator where the tag said pulled from failed engine. So their intent was to time continue the LRU but not worry about what the donor engine had done to the LRU.
Click to expand...

Yeah - too many box changers instead of people who apply critical thinking or do a proper risk analysis when the manual may assume that everyone knows you have to treat the whole system.
 
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I am starting to scan my AP 1565E Spitfire Mk V Volume 1 (maintenance manual) but it is a pretty ordinary photocopy and is missing the
front cover, Amendment record, etc that all come before these two pages. It appears to last revision was AL 47 which is strange as I would have expected the Mk V to be out of service long before March 1945.
1697348941170.png


1697347834736.png
1697347875112.png


Just to make it more fun, mine is a double sided photocopy except the pages are out of synch so were probably out of order and scanned one side at a time. As far as I can see so far nothing else is missing but I do have duplicates of some pages so may be looking for more pages yet. Some of the foldout pages have been scanned as two pieces and pasted together and other pages look like they were foldouts and shrunk as they have the lines that usually indicate folded pages. It is going to be fun with a capital F for sure. Other pages look like they were enlarged as the text is gigantic. I will try and rescale all those pages to close to correct size. Having a fold out page with just 8 lines of text covering almost full height on a page that is 20cm/8 inches high is obviously not correct.

If anyone has the cover and the missing pages listed above can you please PM details to me so I can hopefully complete the manual and post it to the forum.

Thanks in advance.
 
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MiTasol said:
I am starting to scan my AP 1565E Spitfire Mk V Volume 1 (maintenance manual) but it is a pretty ordinary photocopy and is missing the
front cover, Amendment record, etc that all come before these two pages. It appears to last revision was AL 47 which is strange as I would have expected the Mk V to be out of service long before March 1945. View attachment 741616

View attachment 741609 View attachment 741610

Just to make it more fun, mine is a double sided photocopy except the pages are out of synch so were probably out of order and scanned one side at a time. As far as I can see so far nothing else is missing but I do have duplicates of some pages so may be looking for more pages yet. Some of the foldout pages have been scanned as two pieces and pasted together and other pages look like they were foldouts and shrunk as they have the lines that usually indicate folded pages. It is going to be fun with a capital F for sure. Other pages look like they were enlarged as the text is gigantic. I will try and rescale all those pages to close to correct size. Having a fold out page with just 8 lines of text covering almost full height on a page that is 20cm/8 inches high is obviously not correct.

If anyone has the cover and the missing pages listed above can you please PM details to me so I can hopefully complete the manual and post it to the forum.

Thanks in advance.
Click to expand...
Message sent :)
 
Micdrow said:
Message sent :)
Click to expand...

Many thanks - that solves some pages and provides better examples of at least one other pages that I was not looking forward to fixing -- the one below. Having to use cut and paste to create the missing frame lines is a pain. I could draw them in but they always look fake that way. So far I have only scanned the first 40 odd pages and done a first software pass through to get rid of the worst problems but naturally that takes out some details. Some of the lines just disappear in that process and others like the top line below was missed when the page was photocopied.
1697353565204.png
 
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Oh boy......................!
Do I reallllly want to duplicate this one???????????
Sorta! But............. his first entry is Sept 2015, last and Not finished, Jan 2022!
I don't have enough years left in me.
Having said That, I may use his Cockpit for some upgrades! :rolleyes:
 
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