March until October of 1940: fighters' ranking (2 Viewers)

[Shortround6]

Which US aircraft were actually available in quantity in the period of March to October 1940?

P-40 - just started deliveries
Martlet I - but not yet F4F-3, those would be delivered from December.
P-36
P-35
P-26

P-40 started in deliveries in May.
310 P-40/Tomahawks (ex french) were completed by the end of Sept. First Deliveries of the ex French aircraft started Sept 18. Sept production was 114 planes.
The US got 200 P-40s before production was stopped to handle the French/British orders. The US army would get the rest of the planes later but improved models

However, the Early Allisons needed to be reworked and were remanufactured (n 1941). They were de-rated in US service (but not British) to 950hp at 8000ft.
This involved two main problems.
One was that the US Army wanted to rate the engine at 1090hp at 13,200ft(?) instead of 1040hp at 14,200ft.
Two, this change affected the engine life and the engine would no longer meet hours of operation goal the army wanted.
The engines were remanufactured, but the British didn't get any.

The Allison engine had passed two type sets, on at each power rating but the 1090hp rating took a while and it failed the first attempt/s.
However the Merin was rated at a 100 hour test and some foreign engines couldn't make 100 hours it may not be that important.

In any case the P-40s being delivered in the summer and early fall of 1940 to the US (and to Britain) did NOT have armor, BP glass or SS tanks.

I am not certain about how an A6M that appeared at that time compares with the ones that would attack Pearl Harbor a year later.

The ones that attacked Pearl Harbor were ALL manufactured after April 1941. There were a lot of small differences in the wings to solve a structural issue.

 

[Vincenzo]

The Philippine's 6th Pursuit Sqd. did down IJN aircraft on 10 December (1 G3M, 3 A6M) and saw a great deal of action ober the next few days.
By 14 December, a sole P-26 remained servicable and it, piloted by Lt. Gozar, went up to challenge an IJN attacking force. He managed to damage several before his plane was severely damaged in a fight with three A6Ms, one of which was claimed to have been shot down.
Lt. Gozar managed to safely land his P-26, but it was not salvageable.
And with that last action, the P-26s ceased to exist in the Pacific.

For the record, the IJN aircraft claimed to have been downed by the 6th PS were witnessed by people on the ground. It was through their accounts that Capt. Villamore and Lt. Gozar were awarded the Distinguished Service Cross by MacArther and Lt. Juliano (Gozar's wingman) received the Gold Cross.

AFAIK the P-26 don't shoot down A6M, also if they claimed, i know there is a debate on this, the A6M loss is credited to P-35 (USAAF)

 

[special ed]

If only the P-26 had an Allison engine.

 

[Vincenzo]

109 (DB engined) and Spit for the top 2
Zero
Hurricane
P-36

here a note from J-aircraft.com for the Navy Type 0 Carrier Fighter Model 11 (Model 21 with folding wingtips)
Number Built: 2 prototypes by Mitsubishi, 15 pre-production by Mitsubishi, 47 Model 11 by Mitsubishi, 127 Model 21 by Mitsubishi, 1,425 Model 21 by Mitsubishi (740) and Nakajima (685)
Notes: wing spar reinforced beginning with 22nd aircraft, wing tips manuually folding beginning with 65th aircraft, Aileron tab balance fitted beginning with 192nd aircraft.

 

[don4331]

Air force:

1. Messerschmidt Bf.109
1. Supermarine Spitfire II
3. Morane-Saulnier MS.406 (can we include MS.410 - it just reached squadrons as France fell)
4. Curtis P-40
5. Messerschmidt Bf.110
5. Hawker Hurricane

Honourable mentions:
1. Westland Whirlwind
2. Bristol Beaufighter
3. Brewster Buffalo
4. Fiat G.50 Freccia
5. Deswoitine D.520
6. Grumman Marlet
7. Macchi C.200 Saetta

I can't bring myself to include Fiat Cr.42 Falco/Boulton Paul Defiant.

Naval Fighters
1. Mitsubishi Zero = Probably only one which holds own against Air Force fighters.
2. Fairey Fulmar
Intentional gap
3. Blackburn Skua
4. Mitsubishi Claude
5. Grumman F3F

 

[Shortround6]

Until the wing issues were fixed the A6M2 was limited to 250kts IAS air speed and to 5 Gs when pulling out.
This limit was put into place in the spring of 1941 so the planes in 1940 weren't operating under that restriction.
The aileron trim tabs were partially responsible for over stressing the wing. However the trim tabs were fitted to improve the roll response and if the planes with the trim tabs are considered to have poor roll response one wonders how bad the planes without the trim tabs were?

 

[Dimlee]

If only the P-26 had an Allison engine.

And roundels?

 

[tomo pauk]

And roundels?

Nah. Stick the iron crosses on it and it goes 300 mph at least.

 

[Thumpalumpacus]

Nah. Stick the iron crosses on it and it goes 300 mph at least.

Or simply add some nose armor.

 

[Greg Boeser]

 

[Thumpalumpacus]

Yeah, I'm that guy.

 

[The Basket]

P-26 was relatively modern and obsolete so a mixed bag.

The A5M came out a few years later and looked very similar.

The Peashooter deserves a bit more credit than given.

It no jet fighter but ain't no stone age club either.

 

[Shortround6]

A little dose of reality.
P-26

600hp at 7500ft. Max speed 234mph

A5M

785hp at 9,840ft. 270-273mph

 

[GrauGeist]

A little dose of reality.
P-26
View attachment 655438
600hp at 7500ft. Max speed 234mph

A5M
View attachment 655439
785hp at 9,840ft. 270-273mph

The interesting thing here, is the P-26 was a 1932 vintage, the A5M was 4 years newer.

The predecessor to the KI-27 (the A5M's contemporary) was the KI-10, introduced in 1935 and it was a biplane.

The IJN's equivalent of the P-26, would have been the A2N1, introduced in 1932 and it too, was a biplane.

 

[msxyz]

Honourable mentions:
1. Westland Whirlwind
2. Bristol Beaufighter
3. Brewster Buffalo
4. Fiat G.50 Freccia
5. Deswoitine D.520
6. Grumman Marlet
7. Macchi C.200 Saetta

The Reggiane Re.2000 should be in the list as it was superior, in most respects, to the G.50 and C.200 (Max speed 530Km/h, climb to 6000m 6'10", combat range over 700Km). Shortly before the war, in 1939, a British mission sent to Italy sought to procure 300 of them. The deal evaporated once war broke out but still it was sold in small number to Sweden (60) and Hungary (70+ ~200 produced locally). Italy, on the other side, never adopted it because it was too complex to manufacture and its unprotected, integral wing fuel tanks were considered a liability. Only the Italian Navy used some of them catapulted from ships. The Re.2000 was however the basis for the Re.2001 (same fuselage, different wings, inline DB601 engine) and the Re.2002 (same fuselage, same wings of the 2001, more powerful radial engine, 3 hardpoints)

 

[The Basket]

Of course the P-26 looks like a dumpster fire and a hot mess.

I mean, against the F-104 Starfighter, I mean what the hell! What the hell!

But my point is by the standard of the day, when it was designed and the prototype first flew it was up there. It was the hot ticket so I make no bones about saying that. It's weakness is that aviation tech was changing by the second and it was quickly left behind.

Oddly it was designed to be obsolete because the Air Corp were a bunch of old grannies who believed in certain old school values like open cockpits and fixed undercarriage. So Boeing built what they could sell rather than a new jet fighter.

 

[Just Schmidt]

5. Messerschmidt Bf.110

I think this is the only mention in this thread, arguably making it overlooked.

Yes I know, it couldn't dog fight, in the opinion of many making it a dog. But used offensively it often did well up to the battle of Britain, and not too badly when booming and zooming. If its devastating armament didn't decide the issue in the first pass, it should be speedy enough to escape everything but a spitfire, and even then it would not be easy to catch if enjoying the initial speed advantage. Tie it to close escort and all its advantages are negated.

That does not mean I'd rate it third behind the spitfire and the 109, I always have trouble deciding; what do we want a fighter to do? It is a very good bomber destroyer and enjoyed some succes in tip and run attacks. For Europe at the time the range was good, and the second crew member can do useful things.

I'm certainly not claiming it could have won bob if only it was properly used, but I think it belongs well above the bottom of the lists. Possibly some others of the twins too, but I'm far from certain which ones are actually qualifying by october.

 

[Shortround6]

The interesting thing here, is the P-26 was a 1932 vintage, the A5M was 4 years newer.

The predecessor to the KI-27 (the A5M's contemporary) was the KI-10, introduced in 1935 and it was a biplane.

The IJN's equivalent of the P-26, would have been the A2N1, introduced in 1932 and it too, was a biplane.

You are quite right. The A5M was much newer.
However just because a plane has an open cockpit and fixed landing gear doesn't mean that they were similar in construction as one forum member seems to be saying.
The A5M, being newer, did have several advancements.
Like a cantilever wing, not braced by wires
Like Wing Flaps (added in later P-26s because of the accident rate)
Like cooling flaps (from the A5M2b on) on the NACA cowling.
Later A5Ms got adjustable pitch propellers (they many have gotten constant speed?)

The difference in speed was not just because of the extra engine power.

 

[dedalos]

Clearly Spitfire. No question
The best fighter of the entire war. It was only matched by the germans for a few months in 1941. For all the other time frames of the war ,easily, the best all around air superiority fighter

 

[Shortround6]

Oddly it was designed to be obsolete because the Air Corp were a bunch of old grannies who believed in certain old school values like open cockpits and fixed undercarriage. So Boeing built what they could sell rather than a new jet fighter.

OK,
What prototypes and/or fighter designs were being shown around in 1931-32 to the Air Corp that the newer features?

The Boeing YP-29 that the retractable landing gear and the closed cockpit didn't fly until almost 2 years after the XP-26.
And using the same engine it was slower.

The P-24/25/P30 series had the more modern features but the Great Depression caused a bankruptcy that delayed things.
the old grannies were working on turbo charged engines at the time.
But advanced designs that needed development work didn't help replace biplanes right away.