Me109 shot down by US fighter (354th FG) 23rd March 1945 Mannheim-Wuerzburg -area

[Odenwald]

Hello,

I found the crash site of a Me109 and am currently trying to find out more about it.
According to a witness, the plane was shot down on March 23, 1945 and crashed 30 km southwest of Darmstadt. In a very large forest area near Erbach. The pilot jumped off earlier and survived, unfortunately his name is unknown. I am now trying to find out the name of the American pilot.


I found at the crashplace the remains of a "serial image device/Reihenbildgerät", which is why I assume that the Me109 was a reconnaissance plane.

There were aircraft from the 354th Fighter Group / 353th Fighter Squadron in the area that day - the Me109 may have been shot down by a pilot from the unit - but I am not very familiar with the US Air Force, maybe someone has more information. I have these two pilots who shot down Me109s that day. The website says that they were shot down early in the day, but the witness told me that it was after midday...

As USA - BRADLEY Jack Tarlton

As USA - TALBOT Gilbert Francis

Has anybody access to the encounter/claim reports of these or other pilots who claim a Me109 on this day in that area ?

Are there any other possible pilots who could shot down the Me109 on that day in that area?

Where could I find more information for research?

Thanks a lot , have a good time.


greetings from Germany

Jan

 

[CATCH 22]

Grüße Jan,
I have a copy of a document with all USAAF-pilots (listed by their family names) credited with aerial victories during WW II:

Many years ago this document was free for download from an old AFHRA site, which does not exist any more. Maybe there is a new site with downloadable documents - I don't know for sure.
Here are the victories of the 2 pilots mentioned above (as you already have them from the site quoted):

One can tell the victories on March 23, 1945 were different "kills". If the victory was shared they would get 0.5 points only.
Unfortunately this is a scanned pdf-document and a search by date is impossible.
If you want a copy of this historical study for further research, please pm me.
Tschüss!

 

[Odenwald]

Hello Yves,

thank you for your answer , I googeled and could find the list https://apps.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a542272.pdf
but líke u said, impossible to search and over 600 pages - also no additional information.


There are four pilots from the other squadrons of 354th FG with claims on that day,but theres no information about the type of aircraft and location...

greetings Jan

 

[CATCH 22]

Hi Jan,
Good that you found the pdf - it might be useful for somebody else. In fact I searched (for the first time in the last 15 years maybe ) and found the new AFHRA-site with declassified historical studies:
Numbered USAF Historical Studies 51-100
The Credits for Destruction of Enemy Aircraft is under # 85.
I remember in the "dark ages", before the internet conquered the world, people have used books by Dr.Frank Olynyk, who did a great job creating those Victory Lists. I'm sure they were based on the aforementioned document but I believe they were much more detailed with time, type of a/c, locations etc.
I have never seen a real book , only data quoted here and there in the forums.
The book for the ETO is:
Olynyk, Frank J.: USAAF (European Theater of Operations) Credits For The Destruction of Enemy Aircraft In Air-To-Air Combat In World War 2, Victory List No. 5, Published by the Author, Aurora, 1987.
Maybe you can find a copy...
Cheers!

 

[Andrew Arthy]

Hi,

Here are the claims in the approximate area on that day, from Frank Olynyk's work:

06:30, 355th FS/354th FG, south of Darmstadt
Capt. Warren C. Littlefield, Bf 109 destroyed
2/Lt. Benjamin E. Kirts, 2 Bf 109s destroyed
Major Lowell Kermit Brueland, Bf 109 unconfirmed probably destroyed
Major Lowell Kermit Brueland, 4 Bf 109 unconfirmed damaged
Major Gilbert F. Talbot, Bf 109 destroyed
1/Lt. Kenneth M. Perkins, Bf 109 unconfirmed destroyed
2/Lt. Ralph D. Van Cleave, Bf 109 unconfirmed destroyed

06:50, 355th FS/354th FG, Darmstadt-Aschaffenburg
1/Lt. Ralph C. Hasbrouck, FW 190 destroyed
2/Lt. Silas M. Laing, FW 190 destroyed
Capt. Tadeusz Skowronek, FW 190 destroyed
Capt. Clayton Kelly Gross, Bf 109 uncofirmed damaged

07:00, 353rd FG, 10 miles south of Frankfurt
Lt/Col. Jack Tarlton Bradley, Bf 109 destroyed

07:40, 395th FS/368th FG, south of Oppenheim
Capt. Howard W. Jensen, FW 190 destroyed
1/Lt. Kenneth R. Snyder, FW 190 destroyed

11:15, 356th FS/354th FG, north-east of Hanau
1/Lt. Mark Baldwin, 2 FW 190s destroyed
F/O. James D. Kennison, FW 190 destroyed
Major George Max Lamb, FW 190 destroyed
Major George Max Lamb, long nosed FW 190 destroyed
Major George Max Lamb, long nosed FW 190 unconfirmed destroyed
2/Lt. Ernest H. Pearson, FW 190 destroyed
1/Lt. Jack A. Warner, 2 long nosed FW 190 destroyed

Cheers,
Andrew A.
Air War Publications - www.airwarpublications.com

 

[Odenwald]

Hello,

thank you for your answer Yves, there should be a pdf like this one https://www.afhra.af.mil/Portals/16...CGermanJetsWWII.pdf?ver=2016-08-30-150744-443
for the european theater at the website , but it is currently not available...

Hello Andrew,

thanks a lot for your answer and work !

That helps a lot, , Capt. Kelly Gross seems to be the most likely pilot. The area fits also.

I will try to get the reports of of these Me109 kills to get more informations.


Thanks a lot

greetings Jan

 

[CATCH 22]

Hi Jan,
it will be great to post the information you have/will find when you think it's time for "case closed".
This thread can be a future source for everybody, looking for similar information.
A big "Thank you" for Andrew's information. For me this was the best case scenario for each and every research: question - some supporting information-answer.
Cheers to all!

 

[Odenwald]

Hello,

yes, if I get more information I will share it here.

greetings Jan