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I always felt that leading edge radiators for the P-38 would have been much preferred over the four separate radiators used. Of course I wasn't making the trade-offs and I certainly don't know all the variables.Leading-edge radiators were suggested by NACA for the (Y)P-38, to be installed in the extended (chord increased by 20%) section of the wing inboard the engines.
Seems like LE radiators worked on Mosquito, Hornet and Tempest I.
I always felt that leading edge radiators for the P-38 would have been much preferred over the four separate radiators used. Of course I wasn't making the trade-offs and I certainly don't know all the variables.
Thanks. It also may have made heating the cockpit easier. I think I read somewhere that one complaint was that the cockpit had a heating problem.NACA did all the calculations for you, and tested stuff in wind tunnel for a good measure.
NACA report
(they were also tweaking the pod & canopy to better combat compressibility, plus other tweaks to the wing)
Well worth the read: alternative P-38 with LE radiators and whatnot
Thanks. It also may have made heating the cockpit easier. I think I read somewhere that one complaint was that the cockpit had a heating problem.
Well worth the read: alternative P-38 with LE radiators and whatnot
Hey wuzak again,
I am not saying you are wrong about NA having 4-5 years to study the Meredith effect, but do you know if they actually did? Seriously, if you have read something specific that says so, please let me know, I would like to know for my own research purposes. Thanks.
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It would have been interesting to see Camm's thin wing Hurricane with a more refined drag index. What else would Camm have changed if he choose to keep the basic design/construction? sigh.....
There was a pic posted somewhere showing the various incarnations of the P-51/Mustang/Apache series. This required a lot of wind tunnel work to get right. However, during a short period or time the Mustang/P51 went from being a small order of fighter planes for a foreign government to a vital part of the USA strategic offensive. Since the radiator design was vital to the range of the P-51 I doubt they had any trouble at all getting any wind tunnel time they wanted from 1942 onwards.Hey wuzak again,
I am not saying you are wrong about NA having 4-5 years to study the Meredith effect, but do you know if they actually did? Seriously, if you have read something specific that says so, please let me know, I would like to know for my own research purposes. Thanks.
From the Spitfire society web site …….It was soon discovered that simple changes to the ejector exhausts from simply blowing out to the side to being directed back would increase speed. The exhausts evolved from round outlets to fishtail in appearance which also had the bonus of reducing exhaust glare during night flying. These changes resulted in harnessing the exhaust gases provided an additional 10mph or 70 horsepower. The exhausts alongside forward facing intake ducts were used to heat the guns in the wing which were prone to stoppages at altitude as a result of the colder temperature, and superior to the earlier heating from the engine coolant radiator. During the Battle of Britain it was discovered that the Merlin engine would cut out when pursing Me109s in a high speed bunt dive due to fuel starvation in the float controlled carburettor. Initial solutions involved inverting the aircraft into the dive and also the fitting a restrictor in the fuel supply line and a diaphragm known as Miss Shilling's orifice, named after the female inventor (Beatrice Shilling) based at Farnborough at the Royal Aircraft Establishment. More permanent solutions involved moving the fuel outlet from the bottom of the carburettor to half way up and the use of fuel injection using a Stromberg pressure carburettor and finally an SU injection carburettor.The draggy exhaust may have been part of the "kit" needed for the night fighter requirement.
View attachment 533866
Note shields to help block exhaust glare from pilot's view.
The Hurricane and Spitfire were both supposed to be able to operate at night. Take-off, fly around and land without too many accidents.
Actually finding enemy aircraft (or even your own airfield) was another level of complication.
Some sort of flame dampening/suppression was needed to meet the requirement. If it cost a few MPH off the top speed, well, so be it.
Does anyone know if the Mosquito leading edge intake reduced or increased drag with the radiator set up as is, and if the "Meredith effect" as far thrust goes was also combined lift, the outlet is pointing downwards as well as backwards?The "secret" to the P-51 radiator set is a combination of things, not one or two features by themselves.
View attachment 532536
1. You have the extended air scoop/boundary layer splitter. The turbulent/swirling air next to fuselage skin is diverted away from the radiator duct.
2. The air headed for the radiator is allowed/forced to expand considerably in long enough duct that major eddies/swirls are not introduced.
3. The expanded air is much lower velocity and as it passes through the radiator it creates less drag (drage being equal to the square of the speed)
3a. The slower moving air might pick up more heat (not sure about this)
4. The expanded and heated air is compressed and speeded up by the converging walls (or roof/floor) of the duct over enough distance that excess turbulence or resistance is not introduced (some probably is).
5. the exit opening is sized and adjusted inflight ot not only adjust to total airflow through the radiator but to try and make the exiting hot air have a velocity higher than the forward speed of the plane (this is where things get iffy as to whether it was actually making thrust)
6. the direction of the air (radiator exhaust stream) leaving the duct is pretty much in line with the direction of travel of the airplane.
Now lets compare the Mosquito radiator, simply because I am lazy and it is the first picture I found on the internet.
View attachment 532537
It certainly meets condition #1
It is expanding the air leading to the radiator as in condition #2, few neweddies introduced.
Is the air slowed down enough to be as low drag going through the radiator matrix? This may depend somewhat on the radiator matrix itself.
Has it picked up enough heat to materially expand the air (which is different that just cooling the engine)?
The Mosquito;s exit duct is shorter and somewhat more off center, a potential sources of drag/eddies.
and finally, even if the air leaving the duct is leaving at a higher speed than the aircraft is moving the direction of the just thrust is at more of an angle to the line of flight meaning some of the effort/thrust is wasted.
No I have not mentioned the difference in frontal area for each design and this are illustrative drawings and not blue prints with dimensions so perhaps too much should not be read into them.
I am not criticizing the Mosquito (the basic radiator design predates the Merlin power Mustang radiator setup) but just trying to show that there are large variety of factors that come into the situation and focusing on just a few may miss some of the others.