Most Beautiful Aircraft of WW2?

The Stannum Liberator · Apr 28, 2024

mikemike said:
... and it had a German engine, to boot.

Now if only someone had bought and stored all those Swedish DB605s when the Flygwapen threw them on the scrap heap....

I'm not sure exactly where you're getting the "German Engine" from. The J22 used in the early production models Pratt & Whitney SC3Gs obtained from Germany, yes, but not German, the engines had actually been captured by the Germans in France. There were 129 of these French Engines, and the majority of them were used, but the remaining 71 planes, and (presumably planes were refitted) had the Swedish Reverse engineered STWC-3 copy of the Pratt and Whitney SC3G manufactured by Svenska Flygmotor (SFA).

-Stannum

GrauGeist · Apr 28, 2024

The Stannum Crusader said:
Yes, it had a welded steel tube fuselage with plywood panels. On the topic of fuel tanks, they were manufactured by AB Platindustri, don't know if it is self sealing or not. And it DID in fact have armor. On page 202 of Mikael Forslund's Swedish Fighter Colours it states: "The armour plating behind the pilot's seat was deemed too narrow," this was during operational trials in 1943 by the way. They also added after the report this is referring to a 60mm armored front screen. So the J22 was armored.

The windscreen of the canopy was 60mm - at one point, some armor was added, though I don't know if it was a production feature.
The plate behind the seat was 10mm (3/8") and the firewall armor (if you could call it that) was 5mm (13/64").

Elvis · Apr 28, 2024

The Stannum Crusader said:
I'm not sure exactly where you're getting the "German Engine" from. The J22 used in the early production models Pratt & Whitney SC3Gs obtained from Germany, yes, but not German, the engines had actually been captured by the Germans in France. There were 129 of these French Engines, and the majority of them were used, but the remaining 71 planes, and (presumably planes were refitted) had the Swedish Reverse engineered STWC-3 copy of the Pratt and Whitney SC3G manufactured by Svenska Flygmotor (SFA).

-Stannum

It's my understanding that we had an agreement with Sweden to sell them some airplanes and engines. The engine was an import version of the R-1830 (the SC3G you mentioned), so it came from us.
We had to nix that deal, though, but I forget why (feel free to fill in that gap). This is what neccessitated the designing of the J22 to begin with (personally, I think they ended up with a better airplane).
First time I've ever heard/read about the engines coming from Germany.

GrauGeist · Apr 28, 2024

Elvis said:
It's my understanding that we had an agreement with Sweden to sell them some airplanes and engines. The engine was an import version of the R-1830 (the SC3G you mentioned), so it came from us.
We had to nix that deal, though, but I forget why (feel free to fill in that gap). This is what neccessitated the designing of the J22 to begin with (personally, I think they ended up with a better airplane).
First time I've ever heard/read about the engines coming from Germany.

The engine was an unlicensed copy of the R-1830 manufactured by Svenska Flygmotor.
After the war, a total royalty payment of $1.00 was negotiated.

Elvis · Apr 28, 2024

GrauGeist said:
The engine was an unlicensed copy of the R-1830 manufactured by Svenska Flygmotor.
After the war, a total royalty payment of $1.00 was negotiated.

But the engine came from us, not Germany.

GrauGeist · Apr 28, 2024

Elvis said:
But the engine came from us, not Germany.

The Swedes manufactured a copy of the R-1830, so *technically* speaking, it was an American engine, yes.

Definitely not German.

I can see some confusion, though, since the Swedish manufacturer's name does seem Germanic, but it was definitely native to Sweden.

The Stannum Liberator · Apr 29, 2024

GrauGeist said:
The Swedes manufactured a copy of the R-1830, so *technically* speaking, it was an American engine, yes.

Definitely not German.

I can see some confusion, though, since the Swedish manufacturer's name does seem Germanic, but it was definitely native to Sweden.

I mentioned this earlier, but the confusion comes from the large number of R-1830s the Swedes bought illegally from the Germans, but they were stolen French engines.

GregP · Apr 29, 2024

A bit off-topic maybe, but here's a J 22 I drew.

Always DID like the lines ... and the performance given the installed power.

I need to go back and add the bottom gray color to the front view undersurfaces ... and finish the undersurface gray on the side view. Sort of sloppy to leave it that way ...

GregP · Apr 30, 2024

OK, took care of the undersides ...

SaparotRob · Apr 30, 2024

And the creamy nougat center?

GregP · Apr 30, 2024

Damn!

Ran out of sugar for the gas tank ....

Altogether a good airplane for the horsepower, though.

Now I notice I let the grey run over the bottom half of the red nav light ... It never ends!

I'll fix that one on my original CAD file.

spicmart · May 1, 2024

GregP said:
OK, took care of the undersides ...

View attachment 776326

This plane is a really beauty, with harmonious proportions and slender wings.

I actually like it more than the Fw 190A.

Can you draw a fictional "Dora"-version of it with inline engine (with and without elongated rear fuselage)?

The Stannum Liberator · May 1, 2024

Personally I've always found the SAAB 17 to be a beauty.

GregP · May 1, 2024

spicmart said:
This plane is a really beauty, with harmonious proportions and slender wings.

I actually like it more than the Fw 190A.

Can you draw a fictional "Dora"-version of it with inline engine (with and without elongated rear fuselage)?

Can. Takes awhile. Cheers.

I like the SAAB 17 but, then again, I never met an airplane I didn't like at least something about.

It DOES look like they got the tail straight from Vought, maybe from a Corsair.

pinehilljoe · May 2, 2024

The most beautiful of the War, after the Spitfire, my vote goes to:

Venomstick121 · May 2, 2024

RE.2001

The Stannum Liberator · May 2, 2024

Venomstick121 said:
RE.2001

Haha, its just a knock-off P35 with DB601, I dont see the beauty, especially when the P35 (or RE.2000) is so much better looking

ThomasP · May 2, 2024

pinehilljoe said:

Awww! That's so cute.

Venomstick121 · May 2, 2024

The Stannum Crusader said:
Haha, its just a knock-off P35 with DB601, I dont see the beauty, especially when the P35 (or RE.2000) is so much better looking

welp that's your opinion

The Stannum Liberator · May 2, 2024

Venomstick121 said:
welp that's your opinion

Yes, you're right! I didn't mean to disparage your belief . If I was that would be very uncool of me! Sorry for any hostilities you interpretted!

Most Beautiful Aircraft of WW2?

Airman

Generalfeldmarschall zur Luftschiff Abteilung

Chief Master Sergeant

Generalfeldmarschall zur Luftschiff Abteilung

Chief Master Sergeant

Generalfeldmarschall zur Luftschiff Abteilung

Airman

Major

Major

Unter Gemeine Geschwader Murmeltier XIII

Major

Staff Sergeant

Airman

Major

Staff Sergeant

Airman 1st Class

Airman

Senior Master Sergeant

Airman 1st Class

Airman

Users who are viewing this thread

Similar threads