Most Important Aircraft Engine of the War?

[kool kitty89]

On the topic of jet engines of WWII and the impact of the future: which turbojet (or turbofan) engine design that was actually constructed contributed most or most resembles moder turbojet engines.

I think either the Metrovick F.2/4, the GE TG-180 (J-35), what would become the Westinghouse J34, or the BMW-003 or HeS-30(109-006) possibly one of the larger german engines that were built but destroyed later on. (the 004's realitively inefficient impulse compressor, in which the rotors acheive ~80% of the compression and the stators do little more than guid th air-flow, being seldom, if at all, used in modern designs)

 

[Crumpp]

And as far as commerse and society are concerned, the jet engine is far more important.

I disagree and here is why. Air travel was abundant and growing long before the jet engine. It would have continued to grow without it. Commerce and Society would have continued in much the same shape as today in the absence of the jet.

The exploration of space and the ICBM would have been impossible without a practical rocket engine. Without the rocket, our world would be completely different politically. The absence of space race spin off technology would have also yielded a completely different technological base.

All the best,

Crumpp

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

In terms of importance to the world of any WWII engine, it stands head and shoulders above the rest IMHO.

I never though of it that way but now that you brought it up, I agree.

There was a good German documentary on the development of the V-2 on TV this morning.

 

[kool kitty89]

Crumpp, now that I think about it again, I'll agree with that. And as said before, without the space program there wouldn't be the huge satellite network either.

 

[Crumpp]

without the space program there wouldn't be the huge satellite network either.

Good point!

There was a good German documentary on the development of the V-2 on TV this morning.

The Germans have some excellent documentaries on WWII, IMHO. I remember watching a 2 week Holocaust documentary in Stuttgart in 1991. Not that I am a big fan of TV History but I don't think I ever learned so much from one series.

All the best,

Crumpp

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

The Germans have some excellent documentaries on WWII, IMHO. I remember watching a 2 week Holocaust documentary in Stuttgart in 1991. Not that I am a big fan of TV History but I don't think I ever learned so much from one series.

All the best,

Crumpp

What were you doing in Stuttgart in 1991. I lived in Stuttgart in 91 as well.

 

[Crumpp]

I retired from the service. I was stationed there at Vaihingen.

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Patch Barracks?

My father was stationed at Echterdingen Airfield and my mom worked at Panzer.

I went to school at Patch Barracks.

In fact I will be driving down to Stuttgart again in a few weeks.

The have pretty much drawn Stuttgart down quite a bit. Patch will allways remain open, Panzer has gotten bigger with Navy Seals and Special Forces and they are making the post bigger. They just completed the really large PX there. Echterdingen has pretty much been handed over to the Germans. There is just a small VIP flight detachment there and some refuelers that would come out and refuel us when we would land in Stuttgart. RB has only a housing area now and a small PX. The rest is closed down. BMF is closed, everything.

 

[Crumpp]

I went to school at Patch Barracks.

I had a nice three bedroom apartment all to myself in Vaihingen with covered parking for my Harley.

I was single and it was a very sweet time in my life, working at Patch.

Once I discovered the German girls custom was to clean your apartment after a party and mean clean it from top to bottom, it was game on every weekend I was back in Germany.



I had a tab at the bar across the street. They put racks at my front doorstep as fast I could empty them. What a great country.

Gas Bill, electric, telephone, Beer.......

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

What bar in Vaihingen are you talking about. I used to hang out at this one down near the Bahnhof (I will have to dig up the name again). But we would go there and drink meter beers.

 

[Crumpp]

What bar in Vaihingen are you talking about.

It was a bar/resturant owned by a Turkish family. At the intersection was the resturant, bakery, grocery store with a deli, and my building.

I want to say it was on Vaihinger Straße.

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Hmm I dont recall it. Most of the time I took the S-Bahn to the Koenigs Strasse and would hang out at Biddie Earlies (spelling???) Irish Pub or at the Rock Fabrick in Ludwigsberg.

 

[Crumpp]

the Rock Fabrick in Ludwigsberg.

That was one of my hangouts. Every Wednesday I would ride the Bike to the Rock Fab.

A place called "Eddie's PA Rocks" used to hire the members of my unit to bounce. Worked there on some weekends I was back. The bar and most of the staff would empty to my apartment after Eddies shut down.

Koenigs Strasse

They still have the big gyro stand and down the stairs was a huge heavy metal dance club?

"Macht nicht" corner still exist and are they still working on it?

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

They still have the big gyro stand and down the stairs was a huge heavy metal dance club?

There are a lot of places like that now.

"Macht nicht" corner still exist and are they still working on it?

They are allways working on Max Nix (Machts Nichts) corner.

 

[L-17]

Twoeagels

The Allison V-1710 was never used in PT boats. The Packard 4M 2500 V-12 supercharged, water cooled, gasoline engine designed as a marine engine in the mid 1930's was installed in all operational PT's. It weighed about 2900# produced around 1500 hp on 100/110 octain gas. There is a report of one experimental boat with the Merlin installed.

see PT Boat Info - PT Boat - Pakard V-12 Marine Engine

the question asked of you is impossible to answer as you point out -- The German's pragmatic answer is quite accurate -- whatever you are sitting behind is the most important at that moment .

A serious answer might be the Whittle Turbine or the GE-1 because of what they led to.

 

[thewritingwriter89]

The Merlin comes to mind, but one can't forget the R2800 and the DB600 series. Including all the license built copies of the 600, could it have been the most common engine of WWII? If you consider the 30,000+ 109s that were produced, as well as the needed replacement powerplants, you're already looking at a big figure, not to mention all the other types that used the DB.

 

[kool kitty89]

This topic has been extensively discussed already throughout the thread. The argument for the rocket engines in terms of the future acheivements was an interesting one, though it has to do with the Space program rather than aviation. The arguments for the jet engine is a similar case. (albeit not as dramatic in impact as with rockets)


In terms of importance to the war I think it has to be looked at from a similar perspective as the "best aircraft of WWII" thread context. With the outstandingly important role the C-47 played for the Allies. On that note it would be the Wright R-1820 Cyclone-9 or Pratt Whitney R-1830 Twin-Wasp that would be the most important. (both types being used somewhat interchangeably on the C-47)

In addition to this use these engines also powered a great many significant US (and a few other allied) aircraft of WWII.
There's the B-17, B-24/PB4Y, P-36 family, Brewster Buffalo, F4F/FM Wildcat, SBD Dauntless, TBD Devestator, CAC Boomerang, Martin Maryland, Lockheed Hudsen, some versions of the Beaufort and Sunderland, PBY Catalina, and severa more. Sweden used the R-1830 on several aircraft, notably thir FFVS J 22 fighter and Romania used it on their IAR 80/81 fighter/fighter-bomber. The Russians used domesticly produced versions/derivatives of the R-1820 (M-25 and developed M-62/ASh-62) on several aircraft including the I-153 and I-16 fighters and the Li-2 (a version of the C-47/DC-3).

 

[Waynos]

It was said earlier in the thread that the Merlin cannot be said to have influenced the course of the war. This cannot be more wrong,

At the beginning of the war the Merlin was powering Spitfire and Hurricane in the BoB, Lose that and nothing else that happens afterwards really matters for Germany can do what it wants, when it wants. At the end of the war Mustangs escorting USAAF bombers deep into Germany ripped the Luftwaffe apart, the common denominator was the Merlin, it was there from beginning to end.

 

[L-17]

twoeagles--Allison 1710 was never used in PT boats, all operational PT's were powered by the Packard 4M 2500, a V-12, supercharged, watercooled, gasoline engine designed from the get go as a marine unit. It ultimately made about 1500 hp on 100/110 avgas -- weighed about 2900#, accessorized, including marine gear . There is a report of one Merlin powered experimental PT boat.

PT Boat Info - PT Boat - Pakard V-12 Marine Engine

L-17

 

[kool kitty89]

Umm, you already mentioned that in post 95...


I do agree on the Merlin's significance, particularly with Brittain and in the BoB. Of course you could go into what would have happened ar Rolls-Royce if there was no Merlin. (Vulture still fails, more work put into Peregrine and into development based of the Buzzard/Griffin) And seperately, a greater emphese put on Bristol radial engined aircraft.

In the case of the Mustang, there were others (Corsair and P-38, possibly a range extended P-47 available earlier) that could have provided escort. Also the Allison powered Mustang may have been able to encorporate a turbocharger, or greater emphesis put on getting a 2-stage (auxhillery) supercharger for the V-1710 into service. (granted it would probably result in inferior performance than the V-1630-3/7 powered Mustang -at least above 20k)



And reading back through the thread I can't seem to find the post bashing the Merlin.



I also noticed that Pbfoot was referring to the P&W R-1830 Twin Wasp for some aircraft that never used it but rather the Wright R-1820 Cyclone 9, granted there were many aircraft that used these engines interchangably and the B-17 probably could have used the Twin Wasp. (both of which were the most important IMO as mentioned above)