Most Overrated aircraft of WWII.....? (2 Viewers)

[XBe02Drvr]

I don't know the answer but I'd feel real comfortable betting on the Gooney Bird.

I've always felt real comfortable getting on the Gbird, too, except once. Rode a demo flight in a converted "Three-3", a PT6 trimotor Gbird, and it was a downright sacrilege inhaling kerosene and the piercing scream inside that monument to a different time. A structure designed to withstand the comfortable rumble of a pair of radials resonated painfully with the high frequencies of the turbines. Impressive performer, though, with the beta on landing.

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

I've always felt real comfortable getting on the Gbird, too. Rode a demo flight in a converted "Three-3", a PT6 trimotor Gbird, and it was a downright sacrilege inhaling kerosene and the piercing scream inside that monument to a different time. A structure designed to withstand the comfortable rumble of a pair of radials resonated painfully with the high frequencies of the turbines. Impressive performer, though, with the beta on landing.

When I worked down in Louisiana we had a few C-47s based across the runway from us. One was a PT-6 convert. I hated seeing it. It's just not right. Now it was a pure joy to see and hear the radial powered ones start up.

They also had a DC-4, but it suffered a hard landing and sat parked the entire time I lived and worked there.

 

[Dash119]

Really wasn't trying to be. I just can't see the C-47 as being overrated. What other air force had anything better? I don't know if the ME -323 and the C-47 are considered in the same category. The JU-52 certainly wasn't as good. My basis? How many airlines purchased Ju-52s compared to the DC-2/3? Money talks, bullsh*t walks. I don't know the answer but I'd feel real comfortable betting on the Gooney Bird. The DC -3 is still in service in some places. I have seen one flying Ju -52 (by chance) around 1992 as I was walking to my car. I have seen a lot more Dakotas than that. No sh*t but at Suvarniphum(?) Airport, Thailand in 2016 I watched a DC-3 push back from a gate.
I don't chime in on aircraft comparisons. I'm not knowledgeable enough. I actually surprised myself by reacting as I did to seeing this airplane on the list. I tried (unsuccessfully) to phrase it humorously. Unless it turns out that he owned Douglas Aircraft stock, I'm going with with General Eisenhower's assessment.

Now it is my turn for one of my attempts at humor to crash and burn... I guess four more and I'm an ace.

 

[XBe02Drvr]

They also had a DC-4, but it suffered a hard landing and sat parked the entire time I lived and worked there.

Want a fun read involving a DC4? Try Flying Finish by British aviator and famed horse race jockey, Dick Francis. A classic "small timer in over his head" story in aviation, horse racing, and crime fighting. Buy it used, cheap, online.

 

[SaparotRob]

Want a fun read involving a DC4? Try Flying Finish by British aviator and famed horse race jockey, Dick Francis. A classic "small timer in over his head" story in aviation, horse racing, and crime fighting. Buy it used, cheap, online.

WILCO

 

[XBe02Drvr]

I don't get it, that's not funny...

Humor, like a bad martini, can be too dry to register as real. I should know, I'm a repeat offender, according to most acquaintances.

Now it is my turn for one of my attempts at humor to crash and burn... I guess four more and I'm an ace.

I don't think so. Failed the martini test. You're still safe with five crash and burns to go before achieving ignominy.

 

[BlackSheep]

Actually, I am a lifelong fan of WWII aviation, have a VERY detailed database of WWII aircraft to include over 1500 different aircraft types, and have read and written extensively on WWII aviation (as well as Naval history).

I am 56 years old and volunteer at an active WWII aviation museum where were fly WWII warbirds every weekend inluding Mustangs, Spitfires, a Zero with a still-running Sakae engine, Bearcat, B-25, P-40, P-38, P-47, F4F, SBD, Hurricane, T-6s, and Hellcat.

I have met Hartmann and Rall, and many US "Aces," including Parr, Boyington, Blesse, and others.

And I have never heard of "Big Week." Maybe it was simply described elsewhere as a series of bombing raids, but I own over 500 volumes on WWII aviation and still never heard of Big Week. Maybe I just missed the name in my readings ... could be.

Until I see it somewhere beisides "Wikipedia," I'll assume it is a bogus label for an operation otherwise known as something else ... I don't believe a thing I read in Wikipedia and you shouldn't either, unless you can independently verify it.

Tbh, I am no where near the expert as you, but before you pass it off as some sort of Wikipedia nonsense, I remember reading the references in multiple books. Of course, I don't own most of them, I just read them.

 

[pbehn]

Tbh, I am no where near the expert as you, but before you pass it off as some sort of Wikipedia nonsense, I remember reading the references in multiple books. Of course, I don't own most of them, I just read them.

The post is 14 years old and discussed later on, it is Operation Argument lasting six days, which is little week to most peoples reckoning.

 

[emu27]

All of the comparative tests I have read were done by the British and they weren't too keen on touting the Mustang

The Air Ministry were most impressed with the P-51 when it came to fruition, some 30mph faster than a Spitfire when fitted with the same mark Merlin. Remember the P-51 was designed and developed to fulfill a British order, without the British there would have been no P-51, all paid for with British coin, the USA initially had absolutely no interest in the aircraft. The British Air Ministry even considered building the aircraft in the UK when they were confronted with the FW 190 and development of the Spitfire version able to counter the 190 was lagging.

Get a copy of the book "Rolls Royce and the Mustang" by David Birch, available from the the Rolls Royce Heritage Trust, it includes relevant Air Ministry letters and comparative test data.

As an observation, unless you have flown the particular aircraft type in combat yourself against a specific type in a specific theater at a specific time we are in no real position to opine about its capabilities or weaknesses.

 

[drgondog]

The Air Ministry were most impressed with the P-51 when it came to fruition, some 30mph faster than a Spitfire when fitted with the same mark Merlin. Remember the P-51 was designed and developed to fulfill a British order, without the British there would have been no P-51, all paid for with British coin, the USA initially had absolutely no interest in the aircraft. The British Air Ministry even considered building the aircraft in the UK when they were confronted with the FW 190 and development of the Spitfire version able to counter the 190 was lagging.

Get a copy of the book "Rolls Royce and the Mustang" by David Birch, available from the the Rolls Royce Heritage Trust, it includes relevant Air Ministry letters and comparative test data.

As an observation, unless you have flown the particular aircraft type in combat yourself against a specific type in a specific theater at a specific time we are in no real position to opine about its capabilities or weaknesses.

I shouldn't quibble over your comment as it is mostly correct. Putting the British order in context, the AFPC led by Sir Harry Self bought the NAA proposal of March 15 in which the core airframe was a NAA Prototype P-509. The basic conceptual propositions of Allison V-1710, Meredith cooling system, laminal flow airfoil, advanced manufacturing techniques, wing fuel storage were embodied in the Proposed airframe. The BAM/RAF contribution was primarily focused on adding features to make NA-73 combat ready upon completion - not make dramatic changes to airframe design, armament layout, location of coolant system, etc.

As to building the airframe in Britain, yes but not because of the issues of the Fw 190 as the Spit IX was as capable or better than Mustang III for British operational doctrine. Part of the reason was a.) delight in Mustang X performance promise, and b.) uncertainty regarding Packard ability to deliver reliable V-1650-3 which had undergone a couple of bench failures at Wright Field. Ironically NAA lost the 'first to fly' bet with R-R because Rolls easily supplied better Merlin 61 reliability in summer 1942. The XP-51B first flight test configration, save the engine, was ready early October 1942.

 

[swampyankee]

T

As an observation, unless you have flown the particular aircraft type in combat yourself against a specific type in a specific theater at a specific time we are in no real position to opine about its capabilities or weaknesses.

That is a statement I'd disagree with, although not with its intent: a test pilot with experience in combat aircraft and tactics could certainly give a solid and objective comparison of strengths and weaknesses between combat aircraft after appropriate testing, perhaps better than could a regular pilot with combat experience in either type. Of course, success in combat depends on much more than aircraft performance; if it did, no MiG-17 pilots would ever have been shot down by AD Skyraider pilots.

 

[SaparotRob]

That is a statement I'd disagree with, although not with its intent: a test pilot with experience in combat aircraft and tactics could certainly give a solid and objective comparison of strengths and weaknesses between combat aircraft after appropriate testing, perhaps better than could a regular pilot with combat experience in either type. Of course, success in combat depends on much more than aircraft performance; if it did, no MiG-17 pilots would ever have been shot down by AD Skyraider pilots.

I saw that special!

 

[FLYBOYJ]

As an observation, unless you have flown the particular aircraft type in combat yourself against a specific type in a specific theater at a specific time we are in no real position to opine about its capabilities or weaknesses.

While there is some truth in this statement, there are many on here who have spent countless hours with WW2 combat veterans from both sides, collecting interviews and data. Several on here have actually maintained WW2 aircraft, mind you not in a combat situation, but have gained enough knowledge to know technical aspects. One member's father was a WW2 ace and has an extensive knowledge of WW2 aircraft performance (has flown P-51s himself) so please understand you're not dealing with a bunch of armchair generals.

 

[Greg Boeser]

Yes, I am an armchair corporal.

Getting back to the A-20, it had the worst accident rate of all twin-engined bombers in US service.

 

[FLYBOYJ]

Yes, I am an armchair corporal.

I think the paperwork is in to make you an armchair sergeant!

 

[Greg Boeser]

Can't make weight.

 

[pararaftanr2]

Actually, I am a lifelong fan of WWII aviation, have a VERY detailed database of WWII aircraft to include over 1500 different aircraft types, and have read and written extensively on WWII aviation (as well as Naval history).

I am 56 years old and volunteer at an active WWII aviation museum where were fly WWII warbirds every weekend inluding Mustangs, Spitfires, a Zero with a still-running Sakae engine, Bearcat, B-25, P-40, P-38, P-47, F4F, SBD, Hurricane, T-6s, and Hellcat.

I have met Hartmann and Rall, and many US "Aces," including Parr, Boyington, Blesse, and others.

And I have never heard of "Big Week." Maybe it was simply described elsewhere as a series of bombing raids, but I own over 500 volumes on WWII aviation and still never heard of Big Week. Maybe I just missed the name in my readings ... could be.

Until I see it somewhere besides "Wikipedia," I'll assume it is a bogus label for an operation otherwise known as something else ... I don't believe a thing I read in Wikipedia and you shouldn't either, unless you can independently verify it.

As per the Maxwell Air Force Base website, in the article on "Operation Argument", the following can be found about "Big Week":

"During the week of Feb. 20-25, 1944, what became known as "Big Week" in Air Force history, Eighth Air Force and the Royal Air Force from England and Fifteenth Air Force from southern Italy conducted strategic bombing raids against German aircraft factories and other industrial targets.
These raids, Operation Argument, marked the restart of the strategic bombing of Germany, halted in October 1943, and the beginning of the end of the German air force (Luftwaffe).
By the end of Big Week, Allied air forces flew some 6,000 sorties, lost 357 bombers, 28 escort fighters and more than 2,000 airmen killed or captured. The Luftwaffe lost 262 fighters and 250 airmen killed or wounded, including 100 pilots. The operation set back German aircraft production by two months. More importantly, Big Week marked the beginning of the end of the Luftwaffe."
You will find the complete article linked here: Operation Argument ('Big Week'): The beginning of the end of the German Luftwaffe > Maxwell Air Force Base > Display

 

[Peter Gunn]

The Air Ministry were most impressed with the P-51 when it came to fruition, some 30mph faster than a Spitfire when fitted with the same mark Merlin. Remember the P-51 was designed and developed to fulfill a British order, without the British there would have been no P-51, all paid for with British coin, the USA initially had absolutely no interest in the aircraft. The British Air Ministry even considered building the aircraft in the UK when they were confronted with the FW 190 and development of the Spitfire version able to counter the 190 was lagging.

Get a copy of the book "Rolls Royce and the Mustang" by David Birch, available from the the Rolls Royce Heritage Trust, it includes relevant Air Ministry letters and comparative test data.

As an observation, unless you have flown the particular aircraft type in combat yourself against a specific type in a specific theater at a specific time we are in no real position to opine about its capabilities or weaknesses.

Or you could get one of these, rumor has it the author is a little absent minded but a pretty good tome nonetheless:

Amazon product ASIN 1472839668

 

[XBe02Drvr]

Or you could get one of these, rumor has it the author is a little absent minded but a pretty good tome nonetheless:

Amazon product ASIN 1472839668

Who is this Mustang guy? Never heard of him.

 

[SaparotRob]

Post something else Gunn. I need to add a .