michael rauls
Tech Sergeant
- 1,679
- Jul 15, 2016
Ad: This forum contains affiliate links to products on Amazon and eBay. More information in Terms and rules
Like all pre war amy designs( the p38 being an exception) it was designed to provide air cover for and direct support to ground forces. Such was the mission that was envisioned for army fighters at the time. Sort of low altitude air superiority and support.
Well I don't pretend to be an expert but thats what i have read from multiple times and from many what seem to be knowledgeable commenters hereas well that that was how the army envisioned fighter missions before the war. The whole the heavely armed bomber will get through so no need for escorts and all that. Such was, so I have read, the pre war thinking.I seriously doubt that the P-36 was designed for "air cover for and direct support to ground forces".
More that it was designed as a general purpose fighter whose main purpose was to shoot down enemy aircraft.
I'll buy that but it doesn't change the fact that the p40 was basically a 1934 design that remained at least reasonably effective at what it was intended to do(and even some things it wasn't) right till the end. That ,in my mind at least ,is truly impressive.The only reason the P-40 went into production was because of a compromise by the Army. The P-38, -47 and -51 were at least two years away from mass production and the P-40 could get large scale production in half the time: it was quantity over quality
In 1934 when the hawk was.comming off the drawing board they said that? Because thats what I'm talking about. A 1934 design that was at least.reasonably effective until vj day. What someone in the army though of it in say 1939 or 1940 wouldn't.change that.equation.The Army said it didn't have the speed or altitude performance it wanted but this was the best it could get at the time.
The only reason the P-40 went into production was because of a compromise by the Army. The P-38, -47 and -51 were at least two years away from mass production and the P-40 could get large scale production in half the time: it was quantity over quality
Well I don't pretend to be an expert but thats what i have read from multiple times and from many what seem to be knowledgeable commenters hereas well that that was how the army envisioned fighter missions before the war. The whole the heavely armed bomber will get through so no need for escorts and all that. Such was, so I have read, the pre war thinking.
The P-36 was born in an age when "Pursuit" aircraft were to intercept enemy fighters and/or Bombers.
I don'tWhoever suggested the P-36 was even considered for escort?
I don't think i said the hawk was designed as an escort. What i said is that i have read, many times that the main mission the army envisioned for pre war fighters was air suppirriority and support and that the" the bomber would get through" thinking was part of that thinking. Even if this is not the case, and wow would that suprise me considering the number of times I have read it in steamingly knowledgeable articles and commentary this it still wouldn't change my basic premis that the p40 is basically a 1934/35 design that remained at least reasonably effective till the end of the war and that is pretty darn good.
Exactly.
Whoever suggested the P-36 was even considered for escort?
I don't think I suggested it was. What i said is that air superiority and support was what the army envisioned as the role for fighter planes pre war and that the bomber will get through attitude was part of that, so I have read. Many times. Even if this is not the case it doesn't change my main point that in the p40 we have a1934\35 design that was at least reasonably effective till the end of the war and that is nothing but remarkable.
Exactly.
Like I said in my previous post, USAAC Pursuit aircraft (designated with a "P" prefix) were for combat patrol and interception, USAAC Attack aircraft (designated with an "A" prefix) were for scouting, ground attack and aggressive interception....Like all pre war amy designs( the p38 being an exception) it was designed to provide air cover for and direct support to ground forces. Such was the mission that was envisioned for army fighters at the time...
What I said or at least meant to say was that, at least what I have read, is that tha bomber would get through doctrine was PART of the thinking that lead the army to focus on air superiority and support as the main focus for pre war fighter types. Even if this is not the case, which would suprise considering the amount of ink thats been expended on it, it stil wouldn't negate my basic premise that in the p40 we have a 1934/35 design that remained at least fairly effective till the end of the war and in my book thats quite impressive.Like I said in my previous post, USAAC Pursuit aircraft (designated with a "P" prefix) were for combat patrol and interception, USAAC Attack aircraft (designated with an "A" prefix) were for scouting, ground attack and aggressive interception.
In the 1930's, there was only one military that focused on long-range bomber escort, and that was the Imperial Japanese Navy.
You seem to be forgetting that the P-47, developed from the P-43, was based on the Seversky P-35 - which beat the P-36 in the initial USAAC contract of 1935.What I said or at least meant to say was that, at least what I have read, is that tha bomber would get through doctrine was PART of the thinking that lead the army to focus on air superiority and support as the main focus for pre war fighter types. Even if this is not the case, which would suprise considering the amount of ink thats been expended on it, it stil wouldn't negate my basic premise that in the p40 we have a 1934/35 design that remained at least fairly effective till the end of the war and in my book thats quite impressive.
What I said or at least meant to say was that, at least what I have read, is that tha bomber would get through doctrine was PART of the thinking that lead the army to focus on air superiority and support as the main focus for pre war fighter types. Even if this is not the case, which would suprise considering the amount of ink thats been expended on it, it stil wouldn't negate my basic premise that in the p40 we have a 1934/35 design that remained at least fairly effective till the end of the war and in my book thats quite impressive.
You seem to be forgetting that the P-47, developed from the P-43, was based on the Seversky P-35 - which beat the P-36 in the initial USAAC contract of 1935.
Because the USAAC felt that Seversky couldn't meet their obligations, the P-36 was ordered as a back up - the rest is history.
Well sorry i didn't mean to. Only that, at least from what i have read, were the rolls that the p40 were envisioned for and what, again what i have read( i am certainly not an expert) was the thinking behind that but that wasn't my main point anyway long service life of the basic design and therefore underratedness was.You made it sound like close air support and escort were the only possible roles for a pursuit type aircraft in the mid 1930s,
The P-43 was developed from the P-35 - (AP-4/YP-43).While the P-47B shared its concept with the P-43, it is a stretch to say it was developed from the P-43.
I suppose you could say the P-51 was developed from the P-40 - after all, its original design was to be a better (or better than a) P-40.