Most valuable Carrier Fighter Of WWII

KiwiBiggles · Sep 16, 2018

fubar57 said:
unable to be recovered owing to the lack of arresting hooks

And due to the lack of an aircraft carrier.

GrauGeist · Sep 16, 2018

swampyankee said:
Neither Germany nor Italy actually got carriers into service, so they didn't have carrier aircraft, only want-to-be carrier aircraft. The Blackburn Skua was,generously, a miserable fighter but at least it was flying off of a real carrier, not a paper one.

Sorry to correct you, but the Aquila was close to operational service, having already gone through static testing prior to finalization and sea trials.

All work stopped when Italy capitulated to the Allies in 1943 and the Germans just let her sit untouched.

swampyankee · Sep 16, 2018

GrauGeist said:
The two countries, Italy amd Germany, did have carriers and while not operational, had intentions to put them into service.
Poor planning, poor timing and a lack of defined leadership doomed the respective programs from the start.

Even the French lacked a clear goal in their carrier program, the WWI era Béarn being their only operational carrier during the war.

What I find interesting, is that the Netherlands did better with their two Merchant carriers (Gadila and Macoma) than Germany, Italy and France put together!

The Bearn, if I remember my naval history correctly, was used as an aircraft transport, not a carrier, at least after the fall of France. I suspect that the Dewoitine D376 would have been overmatched by the Skua, but that may be just my prejudice agains pre-WW2 naval aviation, which had about as much priority as advanced development of chocolate watches.

Shortround6 · Sep 16, 2018

GrauGeist said:
As it stands, the Joffre was the only one laid down and partially completed at the time the Germans defeated France. Herein lies the shortcomings of the Germans, too...they had several carriers at their disposal, had the projects been completed. The French Joffre and moreso, the Italian Aquila (which was nearly operational) were opportunities that the Germans didn't take advantage of.

There was no opportunity for the Germans, only sinkholes to pour resources into for little or no return. The Joffre was only about 20% complete according to some sources and would have required several more years of work by several thousand workmen to bring to a finished state. The Moreso was never started ( perhaps some materials were assembled near the building site/dock?)

The Aquila, while 'complete' offered little more than a target. There was nothing her 50 or so planes could do to the allied fleet/s in the Mediterranean that could not be done by land based aircraft in the summer and fall of 1943. The days of the Italian fleet, with or without German aid/direction doing anything more than a few hours from base were over.

swampyankee · Sep 16, 2018

GrauGeist said:
Sorry to correct you, but the Aquila was close to operational service, having already gone through static testing prior to finalization and sea trials.

All work stopped when Italy capitulated to the Allies in 1943 and the Germans just let her sit untouched.

The US was closer to getting the F8F into operation service. It doesn't count, either, as it didn't actually make it.

GrauGeist · Sep 16, 2018

Be that as it may, the carriers were planned on, they were being built and for various reasons, did not make it to completion. I can also honestly say that I have never heard of a carrier being built first and then a suitable type of aircraft is decided on afterwards.

In regards to the F8F, it's fairly well known that it arrived as the war was coming to a close. Had it arrived a little sooner or the Allies decided on a conventional end to the Pacific war, it would have seen action.

But unlike the F8F, which followed typical development, debugging and then production, the Axis carriers were plagued with terminal indecision, critical delays and flip-flopping by high command. And even when the Germans had the opportunity to actually finish the Aquila, they did nothing and it ended up being damaged by Allied air raids in '44 and eventually scuttled by the Italians themselves.

Shortround6 · Sep 16, 2018

GrauGeist said:
And even when the Germans had the opportunity to actually finish the Aquila, they did nothing and it ended up being damaged by Allied air raids in '44 and eventually scuttled by the Italians themselves.

Just what chance would the Aquila have had in the summer or fall of 1943 against the British/American fleet in the Med plus the British/American land based air operating from Sicily, southern Italy and North Africa?

I am sorry but the time for the Aquila had long since passed.

"British" includes all commonwealth forces for the sake of brevity.

GrauGeist · Sep 17, 2018

The Germans still had plenty of fight through 1943 - the disaster of the Dodecanese campaign is one example. In a situation of flagging fortunes, working any option is still an option.

The IJN didn't throw their hands in the air and say "ah well, were screwed, let's just stop building these things".
They had quite a few carriers under construction by war's end, even though their fortunes had shifted long since.
For example:
Unryū class: Kasagi - 84% complete, Aso - 60% complete, Ikoma - 60% complete
Shimane class: Ōtakisan - incomplete, Daiju - incomplete
Yamashio class: Chigusa - incomplete, Zuiun - incomplete

Shortround6 · Sep 17, 2018

The difference is geography.
The Aquila was at Genoa. It's area of operations once the NA coast was in allied hands would be the western Med. and a large part of that was in easy reach of allied land based air. With more area being dominated the more time goes by. 50 aircraft are just not enough to swing the balance of power in a region where hundreds if not thousands of aircraft are deplyed.

For the Japanese, the invasion force/s of the allies have to cross many hundreds of miles of ocean and the japanese Islands are hundreds of miles long so a force of carriers might have more opportunity.

Peter Gunn · Sep 17, 2018

GrauGeist said:
*SNIP*

The IJN didn't throw their hands in the air and say "ah well, were screwed, let's just stop building these things".

*SNIP*

Really?

Caption: Japanese Naval militia voicing their opinion to the Navy Department "we're screwed, stop building carriers" circa 1944
Source - Library of the Illuminati

special ed · Sep 17, 2018

If I may be allowed to agitate the situation, the Bf-109T actually saw combat although not from a carrier and certainly not the most valuable. The Fi-167 and Ju-87C while not fighters were reconverted and reassigned to combat.

Most valuable Carrier Fighter Of WWII

Which Aircraft do you consider to be the most valuable carrier based fighter of WWII

Sea Gladiator

Dewoitine D376

Grumman F3F

Fairey Fulmar

Mitsuibishi A5M

Fairey Fulmar

Bf109T

Re2000

Re2001

Grumman F4F

Hawker Sea Hurricane

Mitsubishi A6M

Supermarine Seafire

Fairey Firefly

Grumman F6F

Vought F4U corsair

Other

Senior Airman

Generalfeldmarschall zur Luftschiff Abteilung

Chief Master Sergeant

Major General

Chief Master Sergeant

Generalfeldmarschall zur Luftschiff Abteilung

Major General

Generalfeldmarschall zur Luftschiff Abteilung

Major General

Master Sergeant

2nd Lieutenant

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