The Basket
Senior Master Sergeant
- 3,712
- Jun 27, 2007
Empire: We want to conquer your country.
Native: What happens if we say no?
Empire: You have chosen poorly.
Native: What happens if we say no?
Empire: You have chosen poorly.
Much increased co-operation within Axis countries in technical and tactical matters?
- Thread starter tomo pauk
- Start date
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Admiral Beez
Captain
Afghanistan would like a word.
1842 retreat from Kabul - Wikipedia
Soviet withdrawal from Afghanistan - Wikipedia
Withdrawal of U.S. troops from Afghanistan - Wikipedia
French combat troops withdraw from Afghan war
Canadian troops to begin withdrawal from Afghanistan next month
The foreigners kept coming, but the locals, be them BarakzaI, Mujahideen, Taliban, etc. always remained on the field as the foreigners fled. Why Bush Jr. and friends thought their attempt was going to be any different than Elphinstone's is pure hubris.
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The Basket
Senior Master Sergeant
- 3,712
- Jun 27, 2007
You forgot Alexander.
Can't have a list of Afghan invaders without A.T. Great.
Can't have a list of Afghan invaders without A.T. Great.
GrauGeist
Generalfeldmarschall zur Luftschiff Abteilung
The US hasn't left Afghanistan, they conducted a draw-down, as the bulk of US and Allied armed forces were no longer needed since the restored Afghan Government and Military has stabilized.
On the list of invaders, however, the Mongols, Persians, Mughals and Sikhs need to be added.
Admiral Beez
Captain
Those were the more successful ones.
GrauGeist
Generalfeldmarschall zur Luftschiff Abteilung
I'd say that ousting the Taliban and getting Afghanistan back on their feet was successful.
Unlike all the other invasions, the U.S. led coalition wasn't there to conquer and occupy, but clean the place up and go home.
And try to impose a western culture of human rights onto an age old indigenous warrior society of tribal loyalty and feudal rule much more compatible with the harsher aspects of Islam than with western egalitarianism. Recipe for failure.
GrauGeist
Generalfeldmarschall zur Luftschiff Abteilung
Afghanistan was very western before the Soviets tried to turn it into a client state.
Admiral Beez
Captain
It's interesting that the 44th (East Essex) Regiment of Foot wiped out in 1842 at Gandamak returned to Afghanistan 167 years later in 2009, renamed the 3rd Battalion of the Royal Anglian Regiment. What's old is new again.
Kabul and a few provincial capitals, maybe, but not the countryside.
Thumpalumpacus
Captain
This remains to be seen.
Thumpalumpacus
Captain
We saw the same thing in Iran in the 70s. Urban areas were Westernized, rural areas, not so much.
GrauGeist
Generalfeldmarschall zur Luftschiff Abteilung
There were quite a few nations that were progressively western until the rise of religious extremism - but when a woman's wrist is momentarily exposed reaching for a taxi doorhandle, and is immediately drug off to the nearby soccer stadium and executed, something is terribly wrong.
The urban elites, yes, but everywhere else, not so much. And western powers, primarily the US, exploiting the mujahedeen to fight the Soviets on our behalf, then dropping them like a hot potato had a lot to do with fueling that religious extremism.
cherry blossom
Senior Airman
- 505
- Apr 23, 2007
Invasions of Vietnam have also occasionally run into difficulties Battle of Bạch Đằng (938) - Wikipedia, Battle of Bạch Đằng (1288) - Wikipedia, Lam Sơn uprising - Wikipedia.
ThomasP
Senior Master Sergeant
Interesting bit of info:
Before the Taliban took over, Afghanistan was the worlds largest supplier of illegal opium/heroine. Then the Taliban took over and the Afghani opium/heroine drug trade dropped to ~3% of what it was before. Then the US invaded, and within 2 years the DEA announced that Afghanistan was again the largest supplier of illegal opium/heroine in the world (the warlords said yeehah and got back to business). Recently the US was complaining that the Taliban are using the illegal opium/heroine drug trade to finance their resistance. (Mind you, 95% or more of the poppy growing is still under the auspices of the warlords.)
Before the Taliban took over, Afghanistan was the worlds largest supplier of illegal opium/heroine. Then the Taliban took over and the Afghani opium/heroine drug trade dropped to ~3% of what it was before. Then the US invaded, and within 2 years the DEA announced that Afghanistan was again the largest supplier of illegal opium/heroine in the world (the warlords said yeehah and got back to business). Recently the US was complaining that the Taliban are using the illegal opium/heroine drug trade to finance their resistance. (Mind you, 95% or more of the poppy growing is still under the auspices of the warlords.)
Thumpalumpacus
Captain
I'm not so sure I'd blame Muslim extremism on American fickleness. Not to say that we haven't been very transactional in the region -- and that such fickleness has made us enemies -- but I think it's important to bear in mind that much of their extremism is driven by their internecine fights, among other factors.
I do agree that that fickleness of ours has fueled distrust and even hatred of us. I think that's a separate phenomenon from extremism, though. I don't think their hatred of us is entirely, or even mostly, religious.
I'd really like to read Artesh's opinions on this. How do I ping someone to a conversation?
So would I. Great idea! Click on the envelope icon and you can start a private conversation with up to five members. Count me in. Thanks.
Thumpalumpacus
Captain
I just sent him a PM linking to this convo and asking his comment. Hopefully he has the time and inclination to do so. I figured it makes sense to just keep it here, m'self.
I've found private conversations an excellent way to discuss differences of opinion or misunderstandings without "airing the dirty laundry" in public and inhibiting people's expression.
