Need help with Ju52

[Vmek]

Hi.
Do not know if I am doing this correct regarding forum, thread, registration etc etc...
The case is that I need help with identification of a propeller from a Ju52. Well, so it sems.
IF I am in the wrong place, please point me in the right direction.

My case is as follows.
Two large aluminimum blades cut away from the steel hub, still with locking rings.
Propeller was attached to engine when salvaged for scrap, and blades are untouched, apart from cut.
They are actually in great condition after being sea downed, then submerged for some 45 years, and then just lying in a barn.
Location, downed at sea, serial numbers, etc etc., hint at early war loss.

On steel hub until cut away:
WNR 718....
JU M (410...

On blades:
7187/1
JU M (2,9 W18784) SK
And:
7187/2
JU M(2,9 W18904) SK

I assume "JU" is Junkers, and "2,9" the propeller diameter, and "WNR" is werknumber.
Does 7187 indicate engine number or propeller/hub assembly???
Does 18784 and 18904 indicate production serial numbers?
Hints point at aircraft wnr around the 6500, produced ca 1939???

Can anyone help?

 

[Vmek]

Hi.
Not sure which forum to use, so trying this post in search for help or directions.
I have a propeller blade set from a sea downed aircraft. At least 50 years submerged, then salvaged, scrapped, bought as deko scrap iron, and then stored in barn untill now.
Markings are as follow:
Remaining on steel hub cut off:
WNR 718....
JU M(419....
On blades:
7187/1
JU M (2,9 W18784) SK
AND:
7187/2
JU M(2,9 W18904) SK

"JU" "2,9" must mean Ju52.
But does 7187 mean motor or hub, assembly or serial numbers, or what?
Also, production serial number on blades seem low, so is it an early production?
And what does "SK" mean?
I have been given some hints to the aircraft being around wnr 6500, and background story supports a slightly lower wnr.
So, if possible, could anyone help with further info, or point me in a direction?
Thanks in advance, and kind regards from "V-mek"

 

[Snautzer01]

With vdm prop. Wrknr is for the blade only. Every blade has its own number.

 

[Vmek]

With vdm prop. Wrknr is for the blade only. Every blade has its own number.

Thanks. Also what I expect with mine regarding long numbers. And if semi low producion number is correct, and fits aircraft wnr series around 6400-6500, then it might be an invasion aircraft. Hence my particular interest prior to possible sale. Have absolutely no idea regarding value, but have been advised to contact HermannHistorica auktions. So to say the least, I am a bit surprised......

 

[Snautzer01]

Where do you base it upon that it is a Ju52 prop? And that low producion number would have anything to do with the aircraft series?

It is a standard Junkers prop also used on the Ju52

 

[Vmek]

Where do you base it upon that it is a Ju52 prop? And that low producion number would have anything to do with the aircraft series?

View attachment 559217

It is a standard Junkers prop also used on the Ju52

Due to total find and site. Stern engine was attached, and propeller shape etc etc fits Ju52 pretty good....
Besides, "JU" together with 2 blades and diameter 2,9 indicates Ju52.
(Hint I was given is that hub number and blade numbers indicate circa same time of production. Numbers diveded on production figures, comparisons, etc etc. Not my handy work, there for I call it a hint. )

What do you mean by "also used on......"????

 

[Snautzer01]

The prop. With this description was a standard for junkers. See attachement previous post. Where was the crash site ? Perhaps that will trll more.

 

[Vmek]

The prop. With this description was a standard for junkers. See attachement previous post. Where was the crash site ? Perhaps that will trll more.

North sea, Skagerak. And hub, blade shape, description of find fits Ju52.
Which other Ju had same shape propeller, paddle blade???
I understood your attachment, and it was new info, but does not help me very much.
Also came across "Otto Marder Werke" for production of Junkers propellers, but like your info, does not help much.
And if standard, well,.... then serial number info should be a whole lot easier to find.
(Several persons have stated Ju52, including those who salvaged scrap in their nets, official persons at port, and some with aviation/militaria interest. And all are older than me and I am born 1970!!!)
(And was told/hinted towards aircraft wnr 6458.)
(Aeroart.uk had a blade for sale. According to text it was date stamped... Have written them, but not heard news yet.)
Thanks for answers so far.
Will try add pic of hub.

 

[Vmek]

Propellers mentioned as:
Baumunster 9-20020 A7 nicht verstellbar. Museum plane
Ju Park 9.20020.21. Swiss crash 2018. (Propeller numbered 30520-baujahr?, 32026-baujahr1939, 3201-baujahr1939.
Engines numbered 67438, 68842, 70578 all built 1939.
I do not believe the swiss crash aircraft had original engines and propellers.
Could K in SK be for "kuhlblattern"?

 

[Snautzer01]

North sea, Skagerak. And hub, blade shape, description of find fits Ju52.
Which other Ju had same shape propeller, paddle blade???
I understood your attachment, and it was new info, but does not help me very much.
Also came across "Otto Marder Werke" for production of Junkers propellers, but like your info, does not help much.
And if standard, well,.... then serial number info should be a whole lot easier to find.
(Several persons have stated Ju52, including those who salvaged scrap in their nets, official persons at port, and some with aviation/militaria interest. And all are older than me and I am born 1970!!!)
(And was told/hinted towards aircraft wnr 6458.)
(Aeroart.uk had a blade for sale. According to text it was date stamped... Have written them, but not heard news yet.)
Thanks for answers so far.
Will try add pic of hub.

You do not understand the attachement. It means it is a general used prop by Junkers. Not only for Ju52. Being "told/hinted a wrknr is meaning nothing. Sorry. I have been involved in this type of research for decades now.

 

[Vmek]

You do not understand the attachement. It means it is a general used prop by Junkers. Not only for Ju52. Being "told/hinted a wrknr is meaning nothing. Sorry. I have been involved in this type of research for decades now.

So very sorry if it bothers you. BUT, I have been advised that there is a connection between those numbers and aircraft wnr. Surely most of the records were bombed to ashes, but perhaps info still remains. As for your comment and attachment, I fully inderstand it, and so do others, BUT it is only questioned by you whether it is Ju52 or not. IS "9" AIRCRAFT ID FOR JU52???
As for research for decades, that also goes for me, but not aircraft.....

 

[Snautzer01]

So very sorry if it bothers you. BUT, I have been advised that there is a connection between those numbers and aircraft wnr. Surely most of the records were bombed to ashes, but perhaps info still remains. As for your comment and attachment, I fully inderstand it, and so do others, BUT it is only questioned by you whether it is Ju52 or not. IS "9" AIRCRAFT ID FOR JU52???
As for research for decades, that also goes for me, but not aircraft.....

9 is a building group. Not an airplane code

 

[Vmek]

Thanks a lot, really.
As for indicative research:
Wnr 6015 approved 28 aug 1938 with blades 11635, 11628, 11630. Engine numbers etc are also available.
I KNOW it is not solid proof, hence indicative.
And prior to a sale, I am also curious on prices etc.
I am having a hard time finding any for sale, and the only Ju52 blade found so far, was so expensive that price was on request. The rest of their blades from other aircrafts were very expensive!!!
Other german ww2 blades can be found, and at reasonable prices, in various conditions.

 

[vikingBerserker]

I assume you are referring to the invasion of Norway? I could not find any that were shot down or lost over that area of the sea.

 

[Vmek]

I assume you are referring to the invasion of Norway? I could not find any that were shot down or lost over that area of the sea.

Well, Denmark and Norway were invaded on same date.
And yes, lost at sea 09 april 1940.
Actually think 2 were downed, but only able to confirm the one in Skagerak. (Wnr 6458???)
Lots of differences between wnr, and also with lists.
Not sure of wnr, but danish police identified pilot and or navigator, when washed ashore.
I think several went down in northsea, but this particular propeller was found in skagerak by fishermen.
In the day, they did not drag heavy nets across the seabottom, so it has not been dragged around, but it has caught a few dozen nets in its time, or more.
According to verbal account, it was no deeper than 30 mtrs., and found on fligth path to Norway, but do not know if they meant froom Germany, or from Denmark. After all, nearly 30 years ago it was salvaged.
(Aircraft found in at least two lists, one german and one danish. If you want, I can copy links)

 

[Snautzer01]

Matti Salonen:

1940-04-10, 4./KGr.z.b.V. 106, Ju 52/3m, 6458, RP+AX, Vermißt. Bruch 100 %.
Flugzeugführer Uffz Krieg, Herbert, vermißt
Bordfunker Ogfr Esch, Karl, vermißt
Bordwart Uffz Grüner, Franz, vermißt
Auch 11 Fluggäste vermißt.

 

[Vmek]

Matti Salonen:

1940-04-10, 4./KGr.z.b.V. 106, Ju 52/3m, 6458, RP+AX, Vermißt. Bruch 100 %.
Flugzeugführer Uffz Krieg, Herbert, vermißt
Bordfunker Ogfr Esch, Karl, vermißt
Bordwart Uffz Grüner, Franz, vermißt
Auch 11 Fluggäste vermißt.

Thanks for your post.
Alspo thanks to Matti, but maybe 1 day wrong. Where does his info originate from?
Already said that those lists can be slightly different.
See if you can make heads or tails of the attachments I have added.
Ps. English is not my normal tounge, so I excuse for any language mistakes made

 

[Vmek]

Took a screenshot from other site, of a Ju52 document
Documents like this are still around, but spread all over europe etc etc.
(Wnr 6015. Modifications for long distance start 03-08-1938, end 26-08-1938. Produced by 12-05-1938. Also, fake A-AMYM flew in Spain/Condor Legion...???) Only posted 6015 for those interested, so no answer expected. Cheers!

 

[Vmek]

Anybody got an idea regarding value?
Overall condition good.
Corrosion few places, and corroded in depth even fewer places.
One sligtly worse than other.
Both locking rings cracked.
Both tips bent, one more than the other.
Sharp edges bent from being caught by fishnets.
Never been cleaned, and I do not dare do so, before I know more.

 

[Vmek]

Totally non-forum.
Avatar photo: Uboot gunsight. Pressure proof 30 bar, 300 mtr. (Nicht druckdicht=not pressureproof, but waterproof, and used elsewhere. Outer eye lense (1 of 4) cracked (by depthcharge?) Recently sold to wreck diver.)
Danish countryside, towns, ports, airports, barracks etc etc were packed by end of the war. Amazing what remains to be found. Both in danish waters, and in attics, sheds, basements etc etc,. The latter being in great condition after being "liberated" by civilians or swapped for food etc etc.
Danish army conscript 90-91, first service. US and German wartime equipment was still used.
Just for the laugh, my rifle was a M1 Garand serial no 2856534. - (May 15, 1944 ?!?)