No Me210 fiasco

stona said:

There would have been engines for the Me 210. Production of the Bf 110 would have been cancelled (it actually was, theoretically, on at least two occasions). Ju 87 production would also have been finished, though where those engines would go is anybody's guess.

The Me 410 was eventually a better aircraft than the much maligned Bf 110. First hand accounts from experienced pilots who did fly the Me 210 tell us that they were very disappointed to go into the Russian campaign having reverted to the Bf 110, but it was one of the best aircraft produced by anybody during the entire war.

The real crux of the issue is why the RLM thought it was getting an upgraded Bf 110, thereby avoiding lengthy development issues, and Messerschmitt sold them a completely new aeroplane with all those issues and some. It is a murky area and surviving records don't explain what exactly happened but there was a level of mutual self delusion at Messerschmitt and the RLM.

Cheers

Steve

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Was the Me410 really that much better? After years of development it eventually had better performance on paper due to an engine upgrade and the cleaner lines of the design, but from what I've read the aircraft was still rough to land and did not perform well in the roles it was used in (night fighter/intruder and bomber destroyer). I'm not saying the Bf110 was better by 1943-44, it was certainly not, but it was useful in the 1941-43 period when it was upgraded, but cancelled. As to pilots liking the Me210 more than the Bf110:
Messerschmitt Me 210 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Deliveries to front-line units started in April 1942, and the plane proved to be even less popular with pilots.

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I'm sure the cleaned up Hungarian version was fine and handled better in some ways than the Bf110C and D, but that's not comparing them to the best of the series, the Bf110F, which only appeared after the Me210 was withdrawn.

The Me 210 was popular with the experienced pilots who flew it. I can't give you the quotes because I'm not at home and can't even remember which units got it first. It did perform better than the contemporary Bf 110 in the right hands. The problem was that in the wrong hands it was lethal.
I'll take the positive accounts from both the Rechlin pilots and pilots hoping to fly it in the Russian campaign over Wikipedia any day.

The RLM should have stuck with the original cancellation and not fudged the issue by reprieving the type within days on the completely unachievable promises of Messerschmitt (in this case the man rather than the company). He not only misled the RLM he misled his own board.

Regensburg should have been turned over immediately to Bf 109 production without the delays caused by the two Me 210 final assembly lines. This was in fact the intention of the RLM.

The Bf 110 should have been kept in production without the uncertainties that hung over it for two years. I don't know if the stop/start management of the Bf 110 program cost many units but generally in industry such uncertainty does.

Once the Me 210/410 had been properly sorted out by Messerschmitt AG (and at it's expense) production plans and schedules could have been put in place, if the Me 210/410 was still the best option. I'm not sure that the Me 210/410 would have been adopted as a new type in 1943.

Cheers

Steve

stona said:

The Me 210 was popular with the experienced pilots who flew it. I can't give you the quotes because I'm not at home and can't even remember which units got it first. It did perform better than the contemporary Bf 110 in the right hands. The problem was that in the wrong hands it was lethal.
I'll take the positive accounts from both the Rechlin pilots and pilots hoping to fly it in the Russian campaign over Wikipedia any day.

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I would like to know where that was said if you have the time to dig it out.

stona said:

The RLM should have stuck with the original cancellation and not fudged the issue by reprieving the type within days on the completely unachievable promises of Messerschmitt (in this case the man rather than the company). He not only misled the RLM he misled his own board.

Regensburg should have been turned over immediately to Bf 109 production without the delays caused by the two Me 210 final assembly lines. This was in fact the intention of the RLM.

The Bf 110 should have been kept in production without the uncertainties that hung over it for two years. I don't know if the stop/start management of the Bf 110 program cost many units but generally in industry such uncertainty does.

Once the Me 210/410 had been properly sorted out by Messerschmitt AG (and at it's expense) production plans and schedules could have been put in place, if the Me 210/410 was still the best option. I'm not sure that the Me 210/410 would have been adopted as a new type in 1943.

Cheers

Steve

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On this we agree.

why the RLM thought it was getting an upgraded Bf 110, thereby avoiding lengthy development issues, and Messerschmitt sold them a completely new aeroplane

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USN got F-18E funded by convincing Congress it was an upgraded F-18A rather then a completely new design.

What does this have to do with primary purpose of a dive bomber? If we want to compare Sb2C and SBD we should be comparing payload and delivery CEP.