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My apologies, should have worded that better. I meant Western Allies, e.g. British and Americans. And I would assume, as the voice over said, basically all planes. So day/night on all fronts and all over Germany.What Allies? All or just Western? Day and/or night?
There is a lot already posted on this here.
Thank you for this very detailed answer.The totals run into the What is a loss? question. Whether only missing (what the RAF admitted publicly, thinking the Germans would know most of them anyway) or including losses to all causes, some of which had nothing to do with enemy action. May 1944 (mostly) 4 engine bomber losses,
8th AF 376
15th AF 175
Bomber Command 289, all types but mostly 4 engined, 274 MIA
Total 840, plus a small number lost by the RAF in the Mediterranean. The USSR had few operational 4 engined types in May 1944.
Given the inevitable over claiming involved it is quite possible the 1,026 heavies is Luftwaffe and flak claims alone, no addition by the propaganda people, if the text is saying for both day and night raids.
You want the 1945 Statistical Digest tables 159 and 160, USAF STATISTICS
The Strategic Air Offensive Against Germany 1939-1945 Volume 4 (or IV) by Sir Charles Webster and Noble Frankland, Appendix 40. Seems to be offered as a download by some sites.
The USAAF reports losing 1,148 aircraft on combat missions to all causes in May 1944. RAF Fighter Command something like 120 losses to all causes, add those of Bomber Command and you end up around 1,560, deduct non combat and add RAF Mediterranean losses and over claiming.
What is a loss. Tank knocked out, towed back, repaired back in the line. Is that a loss? The panzerfaust guy would report it as killed.lost 1600 tanks in the Ardennes region
What is a loss. Tank knocked out, towed back, repaired back in the line. Is that a loss? The panzerfaust guy would report it as killed.
The AAF Statistical Digest published in 1946 (?) covered the world in enormous detail including aircrew and aircraft losses: training, operational combat, by theater/area by month/year etc. Used to be online.Hey everyone,
I'm currently translating German Newsweek issue No.718 from June 7th, 1944. In it, the voice over claims:
"[...] 1,839 aircraft, including 1,026 four-engine bombers, were destroyed by the heroically attacking German defenses over the Reich territory and over the frontlines in the month of May. With over 10,000 men of irreplaceable flying personnel, our opponents lost a large quantity of most valuable war material".
Does anyone know if this number seems plausible?
German propaganda newsweek tend to be sometimes accurate, but also sometimes inflating numbers, so this could be anywhere from accurate to slightly higher to ridicolously inflated.
As the voice over claims "over Reich territory and over the frontlines", this would include not only bombers, but also fighter and other planes in Italy, but not Normandy, as this was too early to be featured in German newsreels.
Especially the number of 1,026 four engined bomber seems a bit too high for me, but I have little source materials about allied bomber losses, and havent found a good list or monthly loss chart on the Internet yet.
Any help is greatly appreciated!
Thank you very much, this will probably be very useful for me. Thanks for posting!
Keep in mind, that is only the USAAF, not the USN/USMC.Thank you very much, this will probably be very useful for me. Thanks for posting!
The USAAF reports losing 1,148 aircraft on combat missions to all causes in May 1944. RAF Fighter Command something like 120 losses to all causes, add those of Bomber Command and you end up around 1,560, deduct non combat and add RAF Mediterranean losses and over claiming.
Hi Greg - for you and Barrett TillmanKeep in mind, that is only the USAAF, not the USN/USMC.
Here is the USN / USMC Air Combat Statistics World War Two:
https://www.history.navy.mil/conten...s/naval-aviation/aviation-monographs/nasc.pdf
Between the two of them it isn't bad when discussing the U.S.A. .
Now, if we only had the same for the UK, Germany, Japan, Italy, and the USSR, we might have something to talk about and compare!
I have a file of German claims and a file of WWII aerial victory counts from many countries, but that isn't exactly operations victory and loss data like the two above.
Hi,German losses/wins to give a bit of context May By Day
Battle over the Reich The Strategic Air Offensive Over Germany 1943-45 vol.2 pg 219 , Price
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I googled myself silly for daventry when posted this. Could not find something that fits. But i agree i think it must be read damaged.Hi,
In reply #8.
I guess that the word "DAVENTRY" in the third block, right hand end, is a computer cock-up? Daventry is a place in UK. I think it should say "Damaged"?
Eng