Numbers on a part from the Jumo 004 found at a ME-262 crash site

Discussion in 'Engines' started by hnx, Aug 8, 2013.

  1. hnx

    hnx New Member

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    Anybody an idea about the meaning of these numbers from the Jumo 004 found at a ME-262 crash site in the Netherlands

    [​IMG]

    Found also some compressor blades

    [​IMG]
     
  2. s1chris

    s1chris Member

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    Hi hnx, sorry I am unable to help with the identification but would like to ask. Did you recover these items yourself? Also do you know the identity of the 262?

    Cheers Chris
     
  3. razor1uk

    razor1uk Well-Known Member

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    #3 razor1uk, Aug 9, 2013
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2013
    Considering its looks, it is a piece of some casting. Judging from the surface grain, it is not a rough sand casting, so perhaps more of an investment type of casting, suggesting some greater structural requirement than a rougher sand casting in my mind. Material analysis would also help determine its usage and elemental composition.

    That seems to have a small-ish diameter from part the guessed curvature in that picture, and with the possible severed/lost numbers relating to the mould, design and production/foundry company, I think it is not rom one of that outer/outside cast part of the engine casing or outer rim of a structural web, but that is just my opinion of gut reaction.

    If it isn't part of a bearing hub/web or outer casing or perhaps a of a cast accessory component, then it might be from the cast central internal supporting structure that the combustion flame cans were mounted around and the compressor/turbine connection shaft oil and cooling air passed through - or maybe part of the inlet ducting/outer wall of the inlet duct perhaps.

    Certainly it has a scuffing mark upon it suggesting something passed across it - perhaps a compressor blade or other shrapnel upon impact destruction or combat damage, it doesn't appear to be burned in a blackened way - soil erosion/corrosion might have cleaned that off, but is likely to be doubtful; carbon is chemically easier to bond too than other elements - if I managed to remember some school chemistry, so it if from the internal central web, that was surrounded by secondary cooler airflow - this is still assuming/hoping it is from that central part.

    Could you provide more photos please, of its side(s) and back too if possible for others as well to theorise, and to try and guestimate its curvature size and hence narrow down its possible position.

    Might the location where its from yield further parts/pieces, and is within/under an archaeology framework, or is that the hope to getting archaeologist involved?
     
  4. Kingscoy

    Kingscoy Member

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    #4 Kingscoy, Aug 9, 2013
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2013
    Hi,
    2nd photo 100% turbine blades. As for the numbers on the part in your first pic(if it is from the JUMO) I have to delve deeper in the parts list for the JUMO and I have to compare your part with the parts we have....I'll get back with that....
    Cheers,
    Sander
     
  5. hnx

    hnx New Member

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    Yes, I found the parts myself me and my partners at Planehunters.be know all of the history that is known at this point. How ever the identitity of the plane is not yet sure for 100%
     
  6. hnx

    hnx New Member

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    Considering its looks, it is a piece of some casting. Judging from the surface grain, it is not a rough sand casting, so perhaps more of an investment type of casting, suggesting some greater structural requirement than a rougher sand casting in my mind. Material analysis would also help determine its usage and elemental composition.

    That seems to have a small-ish diameter from part the guessed curvature in that picture, and with the possible severed/lost numbers relating to the mould, design and production/foundry company, I think it is not rom one of that outer/outside cast part of the engine casing or outer rim of a structural web, but that is just my opinion of gut reaction.

    If it isn't part of a bearing hub/web or outer casing or perhaps a of a cast accessory component, then it might be from the cast central internal supporting structure that the combustion flame cans were mounted around and the compressor/turbine connection shaft oil and cooling air passed through - or maybe part of the inlet ducting/outer wall of the inlet duct perhaps.

    Certainly it has a scuffing mark upon it suggesting something passed across it - perhaps a compressor blade or other shrapnel upon impact destruction or combat damage, it doesn't appear to be burned in a blackened way - soil erosion/corrosion might have cleaned that off, but is likely to be doubtful; carbon is chemically easier to bond too than other elements - if I managed to remember some school chemistry, so it if from the internal central web, that was surrounded by secondary cooler airflow - this is still assuming/hoping it is from that central part.

    Could you provide more photos please, of its side(s) and back too if possible for others as well to theorise, and to try and guestimate its curvature size and hence narrow down its possible position.

    Might the location where its from yield further parts/pieces, and is within/under an archaeology framework, or is that the hope to getting archaeologist involved?[/QUOTE]
     
  7. hnx

    hnx New Member

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    Razor,

    Yes found much more parts, no archaeologist involved. see pictures below
     
  8. hnx

    hnx New Member

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    #8 hnx, Aug 10, 2013
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2013
    Thanks and some more pictures for you and Razor also from another piece with lots of numbers.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    And in the meantime this piece with numbers showed up.

    [​IMG]
     
  9. Kingscoy

    Kingscoy Member

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    Hi,
    Is the crashsite in holland? Not that many 262's went down so it shouldn't be difficult to identify the aircraft. I might be able to help you with that. I'm currently in Fort Hood, Texas USA
    Untill september 8th. I do not have a match yet for your parts.. The number on the other photo shouldn't be difficult to find.

    Cheers,
    Sander
     
  10. razor1uk

    razor1uk Well-Known Member

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    #10 razor1uk, Aug 14, 2013
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2013
    Mmm, that piece shown in the second series of pics is flatter indication a larger diameter - complete with a lathe/borer turned face - perhaps from a section that mated to an adjoining section of some kind. I don't know about part numbers and such.

    That last pic, is it the same piece or another one? The condition of it seems better than the others - perhaps its been cleaned or a different composition of metal - the numbers upon seem to embossed, I read them as...

    109 - 004 ('_'/'-'/'?' ?) 8('_'/'-'/'?'/'4' ?) 1 - 00 ('4'/'3'/'9'/'?' ?) ('_'/'-'/'?' ?) 22 3355/4 hSL (''0'/'O' ?) N . 585 (?)

    109-004 would suggest a Junkers Jumo; 109 is jet engine designation, 004 is engine maker.. the rest is unknown to me, guessing N is a production/serial/batch number.
     
  11. hnx

    hnx New Member

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    #11 hnx, Aug 15, 2013
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2013
    a
     
  12. hnx

    hnx New Member

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    The aircraft is indentified, its just about the engine numbers, thanks
     
  13. FLYBOYJ

    FLYBOYJ "THE GREAT GAZOO"
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    More than likely those numbers are the part number, forging lot number and possibly the raw forging part number. They might have also seralized the component as well.
     
  14. woodhaven

    woodhaven New Member

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    109-004.841

    1_n.jpg
     
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