P-38 or Mosquito?

102first_hussars · Oct 4, 2005

In my opinion the Mosquito was better than p-38, 1 it was faster, 2, simple and quick to reapair, could be armed with any variety of weapons at a higher volume than the p38

FLYBOYJ · Oct 4, 2005

102first_hussars said:
In my opinion the Mosquito was better than p-38, 1 it was faster, 2, simple and quick to reapair, could be armed with any variety of weapons at a higher volume than the p38

Wood sucks to repair, requires skilled workers, and is more critical with regards to the repair. Sheet metal is a lot more forgiving and doesn't require the skill level.....

Glider · Oct 4, 2005

102 I am afraid your quote is wrong. It Churchill talking to Lady Astor and its a well known quote.
Lady Astor 'Churchill, your drunk, very drunk.'
Churchill to Lady Astor 'Lady, your ugly, very ugly, But I shall be sober in the morning'.

Back to Topic, Wood is easier to repair but both planes complemented each other. If you wanted an airforce with the minimum number of aircraft types then you could do worse than.

P38
Mosquito
Pick a Heavy Bomber
Use the Heavy Bomber for long range AS
Pick a transport
And that should suffice for most purposes

Glider · Oct 4, 2005

Mistype, Wood is harder to repair

102first_hussars · Oct 5, 2005

"102 I am afraid your quote is wrong. It Churchill talking to Lady Astor and its a well known quote.
Lady Astor 'Churchill, your drunk, very drunk.'
Churchill to Lady Astor 'Lady, your ugly, very ugly, But I shall be sober in the morning'.

The saying has been around for decades it is known throughout the world it is a fact that mackenzie king said the same thing to FDR's other,
and im sure Winston said the same to Lady Astor

Nonskimmer · Oct 5, 2005

Yeah, it's better known as having come from Churchill, but that definitely does sound like something King would say.
I've heard that he said it to Lady Roosevelt, too.
It's a classic saying, regardless of who said it first. Still often applicable today.

the lancaster kicks ass · Oct 5, 2005

not only is sheet matal a strageigic material but if an entire sheet had to be replaced the entire plane often had to be sent away to a fitting shop......

wmaxt · Oct 5, 2005

102first_hussars said:
In my opinion the Mosquito was better than p-38, 1 it was faster, 2, simple and quick to reapair, could be armed with any variety of weapons at a higher volume than the p38

I don't think so - most Mossies topped out about 360/380mph the fast ones (photo jobs) at about 425mph. All P-38s were faster than 400mph, J/L models flew at 420/414 respectively in METO (1,425hp)power top speed in the L model was in the 440 range at WEP power (1725hp each engine).

As for wepons what that plane came with it kept except for gun packages the P-38 had more flexible options with about the same limitations (weight/range).

wmaxt

FLYBOYJ · Oct 5, 2005

the lancaster kicks ass said:
not only is sheet matal a strageigic material but if an entire sheet had to be replaced the entire plane often had to be sent away to a fitting shop......

Not necessarily Lanc - There have been field repairs accomplished by both USAAF and RAF ground crews where whole aircraft segments were removed and spliced together using field produced tooling which amounted to trees and other scraps found at the receptive base. Two famous repairs I could think off the top of my head was a B-17D "The Swoose" which operated out of the Philippines early in the war, 3/4 of the aircraft was rebuilt or replaced. Another story happened in Burma when the Japanese were over-running the area an RAF crew spliced 2 Lockheed Electra's together and was able to evacuate before their base was over-run.

Where wood is non-strategic, as stated, it could real cumbersome to repair, requires labor with extra skills, and in many cases requires a super-clean environment to prep surfaces and apply glues. In addition, you are also going to be limited to the amount of repairs you could to do a wood structure where aluminum structures could be repaired to a greater point or actually replaced as a sub-assembly. Additionally if a sheet metal got sloppy with his repair, sheet metal and rivets are much more forgiving than improper glue splices and glue wood patches....

wmaxt · Oct 5, 2005

Glider said:
Back to Topic, Wood is harder to repair but both planes complemented each other. If you wanted an airforce with the minimum number of aircraft types then you could do worse than.

P38
Mosquito
Pick a Heavy Bomber
Use the Heavy Bomber for long range AS
Pick a transport
And that should suffice for most purposes

This is pretty much true!

I changed easier to harder to reflect Gliders next post without reposting it.

wmaxt

Gnomey · Oct 5, 2005

wmaxt said:
Glider said:

Back to Topic, Wood is harder to repair but both planes complemented each other. If you wanted an airforce with the minimum number of aircraft types then you could do worse than.

P38
Mosquito
Pick a Heavy Bomber
Use the Heavy Bomber for long range AS
Pick a transport
And that should suffice for most purposes

Click to expand...

This is pretty much true!

I changed easier to harder to reflect Gliders next post without reposting it.

wmaxt

I agree, that is all you really need.

Parmigiano · Oct 5, 2005

To save construction time the Mosquito fuselage was built in two half, and all the inside gear and components was fitted in each half fuselage. Then the two pieces were glued/nailed together in the centreline.
It is likely that change some failed component after the construction was a nightmare...

FLYBOYJ · Oct 5, 2005

Parmigiano said:
To save construction time the Mosquito fuselage was built in two half, and all the inside gear and components was fitted in each half fuselage. Then the two pieces were glued/nailed together in the centreline.
It is likely that change some failed component after the construction was a nightmare...

Possibly - many times the manufacture will recognize that and develop a "Standard Repair Manual" to address situations like that - even still, I can't imagine cutting half a fuselage apart to get a failed component out and then having to glue everything back together again!

Parmigiano · Oct 5, 2005

.. well, I don't believe that the maintenance procedure was to saw the airplane in two (!), I suppose there was some door/opening or even pre-defined sawing area in the fuselage.
Just the space was probably more cramped than a plane assembled in the standard way.

FLYBOYJ · Oct 5, 2005

Parmigiano said:
.. well, I don't believe that the maintenance procedure was to saw the airplane in two (!).

Don't under-estimate the imagination of engineers!! - On the Boeing 747 there is a corrosion service bulletin called I believe a "Section 48." It involves removing the entire upper deck of the aircraft, checking for corrosion and reinstalling it with reinfored parts. This is probably one of the most in-depth maintenance actions to be accomplished on a fleet airliner.....

FLYBOYJ · Oct 5, 2005

And how can I forget! I worked for a company where we converted DC-10s to MD-10s - basically put MD-11 avionics in a DC-10 and eliminated the flight engineer's position. To get the new avionics bay into the aircraft, THE ENTIRE LOWER NOSE WAS REMOVED FROM THE AIRCRAFT, ABOUT AND REPLACED WHEN THE NEW AVIONICS WERE INSTALLED!!!!

wmaxt · Oct 5, 2005

FLYBOYJ said:
And how can I forget! I worked for a company where we converted DC-10s to MD-10s - basically put MD-11 avionics in a DC-10 and eliminated the flight engineer's position. To get the new avionics bay into the aircraft, THE ENTIRE LOWER NOSE WAS REMOVED FROM THE AIRCRAFT, ABOUT AND REPLACED WHEN THE NEW AVIONICS WERE INSTALLED!!!!

Yup, I have a friend with Fed/Ex who has flown those very planes.

wmaxt

FLYBOYJ · Oct 5, 2005

wmaxt said:
FLYBOYJ said:

And how can I forget! I worked for a company where we converted DC-10s to MD-10s - basically put MD-11 avionics in a DC-10 and eliminated the flight engineer's position. To get the new avionics bay into the aircraft, THE ENTIRE LOWER NOSE WAS REMOVED FROM THE AIRCRAFT, ABOUT AND REPLACED WHEN THE NEW AVIONICS WERE INSTALLED!!!!

Click to expand...

Yup, I have a friend with Fed/Ex who has flown those very planes.

wmaxt

NO KIDDING! I did the first 2 done at SR Technics - they went belly up because they under bid the mod - I quit before that - saw the writing on the wall!

The Mossie also required a special IFF system (from what I understand) becuase of it's low radar signature (or did we already discuss this?). Does anyone else have information on this?

Glider · Oct 6, 2005

The Mossie certainly had an IFF system and I believe some had an IFF system that triggered a response from the German fighters. This obviously helped identify the nightfighters from the bombers in the mass of aircraft in the bomber stream.
I also know that the Mossie had a low radar signiture but I am not aware of a system that had to be installed because of the low radar response.

Gemhorse · Dec 7, 2005

Well, at least Mosquitos carried sufficent bombs etc. into Germany rather than P.38's armed to protect armed bombers...At least Mossies could actually fly into Germany UNARMED and drop bombloads equivalent to the bombers the P.38's were defending...I can't think of one US variant offhand, that flew into Germany that wasn't bristling with guns, that wasn't a transport or light recce, post D-Day...

Interesting how many US members would rather fly a Mosquito in Bomber Command than any other British Bomber Command aircraft though, as currently posted in the Polls....and they would choose this ''wooden'' aircraft over all those other metal-constructed ones....I guess that finally puts paid to all the old ''wood burned well over Germany'', and the ''borer-fatigue'' jokes.......

Why even try comparing the two? - P.38's were used pretty exclusively over Germany as escort fighters, something the Mosquito was far too busy to be pissing around with - Both had their respective qualities and theatres - It wasn't until the B.26 Invader came along, LATE in the War, that there was a reasonably comparable US twin-engined aircraft to the Mosquito....and then, I'd STILL prefer the Mosquito........

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