P-38 or Mosquito?

[wmaxt]

The night kills of the P-38 are confirmed and the outfit was a day fighter version. I agree to disagree, the Mossie was second to none and the P-38 doesn't even come close, and it should not even be compared with the Mossie ....

the P-38 was queen in the Pacific in the ETO it was not. It did it's job when it was needed but was replaced by more able craft such as the Jug and Stang.

I, guess we do agree to disagree. The P-38 record is there if you look beyond the gross, out of context statisitics.

As to the claim of replacement Doolittle himself confirmed it was not capability but ease of support.

wmaxt

 

[the lancaster kicks ass]

i'm with erich the mossie far, far far outdoes the P-38 as a nightfighter.........

 

[cheddar cheese]

It terms of records yeah, in ability the -38M was probably right up with it...

In terms of a day fighter the P-38 far, far, far outdoes the Mossie. Its swings and roundabouts.

 

[syscom3]

It seems that the Mosquito was more of a high speed light attack bomber than being a fighter, and the P38 was a good fighter-bomber but not a light attack bomber.

When it came for night missions, the Mosquito was definetly the better of the two.

 

[evangilder]

P-38s were used in one of the raids over Ploesti on June 10, 1944. 46 P-38s each carrying 1,000 lbs of bombs raided the Romano Americano Oil refinery. Some led raids of bombers as well. So it could be a light attack bomber.

For nightfighting, I agree, the Mosquito was the top dog in the ETO for night fighting.

 

[wmaxt]

P-38s were used in one of the raids over Ploesti on June 10, 1944. 46 P-38s each carrying 1,000 lbs of bombs raided the Romano Americano Oil refinery. Some led raids of bombers as well. So it could be a light attack bomber.

For nightfighting, I agree, the Mosquito was the top dog in the ETO for night fighting.

The P-38 could and did carry 4,ooolbs on a radus of 400mi, 2,000lbs for 600 miles and was considered very effective as a Dive bomber, attack bomber, and even level bomber. P-38s were credited with doing the most damage to the refineries at Ploesti by many sources.

The Mossie did the brunt of Allied night fighting no doubt. When asked to the P-38 was an effective night fighter. This is a distinction the Mossie boys miss, the P-38 did the jobs as well as many purpose built planes did, the problem was there were not enough of them to do everything that could be asked of them.

There are accounts of P-38s flying a strike mission in the morning a recon (visual or hand cameras) on the strike and an escort in the day time by the same planes on the same day.

I think the mossie was a bomber/fighter and the 38 a fighter/bomber each was better in it's prime roll. I also think the P-38 is just a hair better as a bomber than the Mossie is as a fighter, esp in daylite right after I've dropped my bombs and got jumped by a gagle of 109s.

wmaxt

 

[Erich]

wmax remember that the P-38 in the night time role in the Pacific was not an altered craft but a day time interceptor. the units did not have radar ard were free lance fighters something like the German Wilde Sau equivalent with some ground to air guidance. Also credit is given as this was the infancy of the US night fighter program during those early tender years

 

[wmaxt]

wmax remember that the P-38 in the night time role in the Pacific was not an altered craft but a day time interceptor. the units did not have radar ard were free lance fighters something like the German Wilde Sau equivalent with some ground to air guidance. Also credit is given as this was the infancy of the US night fighter program during those early tender years

Understood and agreed, I never said it was dedicated night fighters, that didn't happen until the M model. What I did say was that when asked it did the job and had it been desired it was perfectly capable. It was only a 6hr job to hang a radar system on a F4U.

A good portion of this thread is capabilities personaly I think were comparing apples and oranges. The P-38 was effective in every roll it was ever tried (except two gliders at a time when one has slamed on its beakes half way through the takeoff run). This was from a dedicated interceptor that in reality was the first and one of the very best multi-roll fighters ever built. Its biggest drawbacks, publicising its teething problems (all the other planes had ~the same magnitude of problems but the P-38 was good enough to fight and hold it's own in spite of them) for political ends and numbers of planes built.

The Mossie, is in a way in the same boat, designed for recon but with minor mods it could do most anything and was a great plane in it's own right. Best? it depends more on personal choice and particular mission than anything else.

wmaxt

 

[elmilitaro]

The P-38 was a good aircraft, but the Mosquito was probably better. Some examples: Faster speed, better recon plane, better and stronger armanent (when it had it), low radar detection, and it was way lighter. Also you could save a whole bunch of aluminum.

 

[syscom3]

But the Mosquito couldnt compete in a dog fight. The P38 could.

 

[evangilder]

Oh man, I think you are going to get some flak for that one. I think that they were both very capable aircraft that went far beyond what they were originally designed for.

 

[plan_D]

The Mosquito was not the best dogfighter but it's speed let it dictate the fight. And in any case, the Mosquito was the superior bomber, night-fighter and ship hunter.

 

[wmaxt]

The P-38 was a good aircraft, but the Mosquito was probably better. Some examples: Faster speed, better recon plane, better and stronger armanent (when it had it), low radar detection, and it was way lighter. Also you could save a whole bunch of aluminum.

Well lets look at the planes P-38L and Mossie Mk-VI

Wingspan - P-38 52' - Mossie 54'
Weight max - P-38 21,400lbs - Mossie 21,750lbs
Empty weight - P-38 1,450lbs - Mossie 1,430lbs
Max Speed - P-38 ~ 442mph - Mossie 362/380mph with some PR planes hitting 425
Best cruise both @ 295mph
Ceiling - P-38 44,000 ft - Mossie 33,000ft some PR planes could go higher
Range max - P-38 2,600mi - Mossie 1,850mi
With Bomb Load of 2,000lbs - P-38 1,200mi - Mossie 1,400mi
Bomb load of 4,000 - P-38 900mi - Mossie not known

The aircraft have esentialy the same size, weights and load capacity the P-38 exceeds it in most other respects. It still comes down to choice/mission mine is the P-38.

wmaxt

 

[FLYBOYJ]

The aircraft have esentialy the same size, weights and load capacity the P-38 exceeds it in most other respects. It still comes down to choice/mission mine is the P-38.

wmaxt

 

[plan_D]

The P-38L was a late mark P-38. Comparing it with a Mosquito Mk.VI is a little unfair. Why no mention of armament? Or maximum bombload? Production time? Service record?

In fact, don't bother it's been done before. It does depend on the mission profile for which aircraft you take. The Mosquito being more capable in more mission types.

 

[lesofprimus]

The big arguments is primary mission roles....

Was the P-38 a better fighter than the Mossie was a bomber...... Thats the argument in a nutshell...

 

[syscom3]

Les summed it up perfectly. I think were comparing apples and oranges.

 

[cheddar cheese]

Good points presented in this thread wmaxt...well said...

 

[wmaxt]

The P-38L was a late mark P-38. Comparing it with a Mosquito Mk.VI is a little unfair. Why no mention of armament? Or maximum bombload? Production time? Service record?

In fact, don't bother it's been done before. It does depend on the mission profile for which aircraft you take. The Mosquito being more capable in more mission types.

The J model was a bit slower but all other performance atributes were essentialy the same and between the two around 5,000 were built only 6,710 Mossies were built durring the war. Also the Mossie I picked was a better than average model with most marks being about equal (the NF XIX is almost identical) - I feel it's a fair comparison

If I was flying a night tac strike Id choose the Mossie. Durring the day, or for anything else, I would pick the P-38. This is especialy true if I could get into a fight. I also think the P-38 is a better fighter than the Mossie was a bomber (their both still tac air) and I think the P-38 was a better bomber than the Mossie was a fighter BUT the margin of difference is small.

I also dissagree about which is most versatile not only could each P-38 do a wider range of things many of the Mossies capabilities are just variations of the same thing Dropping a mine is no different than dropping a bomb, while dive bombing is a different beast from level bombing and a Mossie can't do it.

Choice/mission!

wmaxt

 

[wmaxt]

Good points presented in this thread wmaxt...well said...

Thanks

They had different rolls and their versatility was the best of any other aircraft in WWII, comparing them isn't really fair to either.

wmaxt