P-38 or Mosquito?

[pattle]

Why compare a bomber to a fighter? surely the Mosquito was the better bomber and the P38 the better fighter. Having said that the mosquito was the better night fighter of the two and the Mosquito was a more versatile and unique weapon.

 

[swampyankee]

I tend to dislike these "which is better" threads.

About the only point of comparison between the two aircraft is the number of engines.

 

[YakFlyer]

Come on folks, we all have to admit, the non british/american aviators here will have to say the Mosquito had far greater impact on the second world war. It was a very clever design, while the P38 was effective, it surely can't be said that it was any where near as effective as the Mosquito in combat. Surely?
See this video: I saw the Jagen Mossie before it was crated up in NZ and sent to Virginia Beach.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KGCslbIktnQ

Now, that said, for me, purely from an enthusiasts point of view, I love the P-38! It is undeniably my favourite multi-eng aircraft, which means it got my vote. The Lightning was just something else to see and hear wasn't it?

The no.1 thing to see at Oshkosh last year, was to see Glacier Girl. Mission accomplished. Everything else was a bonus.

yakflyer

 

[pbehn]

Amazing how a fighter and a bomber can be used for such similar roles. Both Great aircraft, its the Mosquito for me as it was the dogs goolies as a night fighter and recconnaisance A/C which it wasnt designed for while being the most accurate and cost effective Bomber in Bomber command day or night. We will ignore the unfortunate incident which nearly killed Niels Bohr world famous Physicist.

from Wiki

When the news of Bohr's escape reached Britain, Lord Cherwell sent a telegram to Bohr asking him to come to Britain. Bohr arrived in Scotland on 6 October in a De Havilland Mosquito operated by British Overseas Airways Corporation. The Mosquitos were unarmed high-speed bomber aircraft that had been converted to carry small, valuable cargoes or important passengers. By flying at high speed and high altitude, they could cross German-occupied Norway, and yet avoid German fighters. Bohr, equipped with parachute, flying suit and oxygen mask, spent the three-hour flight lying on a mattress in the aircraft's bomb bay.[94] During the flight, Bohr did not wear his flying helmet as it was too small, and consequently did not hear the pilot's intercom instruction to turn on his oxygen supply when the aircraft climbed to high altitude to overfly Norway. He passed out from oxygen starvation and only revived when the aircraft descended to lower altitude over the North Sea.[95][96][97] Bohr's son Aage followed his father to Britain on another flight a week later, and became his personal assistant.[98][99]

 

[Njaco]

Hey Yakflyer, is that you with GG?

 

[pattern14]

I was reading Adolf Gallands book, 'The first and the last", and he put the P38 in the same category as the Bf 110. He considered it inferior to single engine fighters, saying it suffered the same drawbacks as the 110. Having encountered them in actual combat gives him a unique perspective I suppose.

 

[MildExplosion]

I absolutely adore both aircraft, but in terms of pure performance, the late model P-38s for sure. The P-38L outpreforms the Mosquito Mk. FB VI in every way, except possibly turn circle, but I'm not sure about that. Not to mention things like boosted ailerons and dive recovery flaps that were included on late model P-38s.

However, that is not to say the Mosquito was not excellent at some things the Lightning simply could not do. Including, but not limited to: anti submarine operations with a 57 mm cannon, proper bombing, and much more.

In terms of performance, the P-38. In terms of utility, probably the Mosquito.

In the end, they are some of the most fantastic preforming, and beautiful aircraft of the war.

 

[CreamPuff]

I admire the Mosquito for an entirely different reason. Mosquito production kept a large number of piano shops gainfully employed making something other than pianos. And I think we can all agree that a piano shortage is a good thing.
Just imagine the damage done to the atmosphere of countless village pubs if they'd had shiny new pianos in the corner instead of battered old wrecks with no tone but massive character?

How does that saying go? Fighter pilots make movies...bomber boys make history.
History is endlessly fascinating, but movies are more fun. I'll take the (late model) Lightning!

 

[GrauGeist]

Lord have mercy - this has to be one of the oldest revived threads on the forums...

 

[Rabies Cobradriver]

I have a slightly different take on the whole thing (though I must say I gave up on reading every post after say the twenty page mark)

I believe the p38 was one of the most expensive fighters produced in ww2, the Mosquitos cost was around two thirds the price of the p38 and didn't use as much strategic materials in her construction and largely used a skill set in the population that was under utilised . It would also have lent itself to decentralising its construction due to lower energy requirements of wood vs energy hungry aluminium .
The better performance in the ETO is the same argument on the Allisons already known poorer performance at high altitude, which is probably why we see less of the use of the p51 in the PTO. Major Bong of course was PTO.
Adolf Galland was unimpressed by the p38 and compared it to the bf110 for shortcomings - low blow .
Reading a list of US aces the p38 features well PTO but less so in the ETO.
I wonder if it would have been possible to make a theatre specific p38 by re powering them with merlins?
Interestingly the mosquito only weighs a couple of hundred kilos more but carried less. I would imagine though that the p38 having only external stores would have suffered more performance loss on the outward leg of the mission than principally internal storage of the mozzie

Reliability plagued the Mossie. It had float bowl type carburetors which would malfunction during evasive aerobatic maneuvers, causing unrecoverable stalls. The P38 was faster, had 60% greater range, superior firepower, and better maneuverability. The only advantages of the Mosquito were lower manufacturing cost and practical invisibility to the German radars of the time. In the latter sense, the Mossie may have been a superior solution for very specific bombing missions, but was inferior in every other performance metric.

 

[Airframes]

Reliability plagued the Mosquito ???
I've never heard that one before - and I've had the privilege of knowing a number of Mosquito aircrew.

 

[Rabies Cobradriver]

Mosquito. Lightweight and fast enough to do it's job. The P-38 is an awesome aircraft no doubt but you have to be careful in a full all out steep dive.

Compression problems in dives were resolved by the installation of five flaps (speed brakes) on the versions following the initial production model. The problem was identified and solved very early on.

Compression problems in dives were resolved by the installation of five flaps (speed brakes) on the versions following the initial production model. The problem was identified and solved very early on.

"Dive flaps" — flipping autocorrect sux.

 

[tomo pauk]

Reliability plagued the Mossie. It had float bowl type carburetors which would malfunction during evasive aerobatic maneuvers, causing unrecoverable stalls.

Welcome to the forum.
Could you please quote a source about Mosquito entering unrecoverable stalls, especially the ones caused by malfunctioning carburetors?

The P38 was faster, had 60% greater range, superior firepower, and better maneuverability. The only advantages of the Mosquito were lower manufacturing cost and practical invisibility to the German radars of the time. In the latter sense, the Mossie may have been a superior solution for very specific bombing missions, but was inferior in every other performance metric.

P-38 was designed as a fighter, so it should be more maneuverable. Some Mosquitoes were faster than contemporary P-38s, plenty of them were with much greater firepower - 4 cannons and all that jazz. 60% greater range for any P-38s vs. any Mosquito?

Compression problems in dives were resolved by the installation of five flaps (speed brakes) on the versions following the initial production model. The problem was identified and solved very early on.

Problem was not served early on, but in 1944. When it is about fighters, P-38 was among the worst of them.
Mosquito have had more favorable dive limits.

 

[pbehn]

Reliability plagued the Mossie. It had float bowl type carburetors which would malfunction during evasive aerobatic maneuvers, causing unrecoverable stalls. The P38 was faster, had 60% greater range, superior firepower, and better maneuverability. The only advantages of the Mosquito were lower manufacturing cost and practical invisibility to the German radars of the time. In the latter sense, the Mossie may have been a superior solution for very specific bombing missions, but was inferior in every other performance metric.

It was also superior solution to recon missions, a superior solution to maritime strike missions, a superior solution to night fighter missions and pathfinder missions. and shooting down V1s at night missions. I don't remember reading about its 4 x 20 cannon, rockets and bombs being inadequate.

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

And the Mossie was not even close to being invisible to German radar. It had a small signature, but it was not practically invisible. Wood still returns a radar signature, the shape was not stealthy, and those big spinny things called props all ensured it was seen on radar.

 

[tomo pauk]

And the Mossie was not even close to being invisible to German radar. It had a small signature, but it was not practically invisible. Wood still returns a radar signature, the shape was not stealthy, and those big spinny things called props all ensured it was seen on radar.

Rumor is that Mosquito also featured two engines. My understanding is that those were not made of wood, but of metal.

 

[pbehn]

And the Mossie was not even close to being invisible to German radar. It had a small signature, but it was not practically invisible. Wood still returns a radar signature, the shape was not stealthy, and those big spinny things called props all ensured it was seen on radar.

From what I read German RADAR could find them easily enough but their speed and height made vectoring an interception very difficult in daylight more so at night.

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Rumor is that Mosquito also featured two engines. My understanding is that those were not made of wood, but of metal.

You mean it was not powered by magic?

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

From what I read German RADAR could find them easily enough but their speed and height made vectoring an interception very difficult in daylight more so at night.

That is what I have read over the years as well.

 

[pbehn]

Welcome to the forum.
Could you please quote a source about Mosquito entering unrecoverable stalls, especially the ones caused by malfunctioning carburetors?
.

This was basically the cause of the Barton crash in 1996 but as far as I see in this report the carbs were incorrectly set https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/542301dce5274a1317000b69/dft_avsafety_pdf_501355.pdf