P-38 or Mosquito?

Which was better?

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Clean32 said:
correct i never said they did.
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Really?
 

OK not arguing. as as i said based on what i have read in australian press, as i have already said. so the version i read is that General dynamics didn't want to support the last f111s around, i assume this is technical support. i also understand that Boeing was doing ALL F111 maintenance, although i do not know when they started doing ALL as opposed to service/ deap / heavy. i do know that the planned rollback was 2020 for the f111 and not 2010. i do know that neither the Super Hornets or f35 have the operational range of the f111 which is an issue since australia is quite large and that has been one of the main points constantly raised. i do know that the australian government pulled out of the f35 development program after spending millions, because they said so. on TV even. i know that america wanted the f111 junked and for australia to buy Super Hornets because the australian government said so, on TV even. i also know that sustainment is not equal to independant. guess that's it.
 

The Australian government conducted a review into the F-35 program about 2010, IIRC. The conclusion was to continue with the program.

The F-111s were retired after a series of incidents and a crash, or two. They were intended to continue until the F-35 was available, so F-18E/F were purchased as replacements.

Meanwhile a number of F-18As were approaching end of service. Because the F-35 was not going to be available, the Australian government purchased more F-18E/Fs and some Growlers (F-18G?) and reduced the F-35 order by the same number of airframes.

At no time has the Australian government canceled or pulled out of the F-35 program.
 
Shortround6 said:
Thank you for the engine chart.

as for the accuracy of the weights?
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No sweat on the engine chart - the whole -1 and a partial -2 on on the forum somewhere so I have to thank the person who posted the -1 for you

The points you raise are all valid. As you say there obviously were some anomalies in some manuals and we can only make educated guesses at what the rationale was behind what they wrote.
 

That is worth a truckload of bacon. Short and to the point.
 
GrauGeist said:
Still trying to figure out how New Zealand was punished for buying Vampires instead of F-16s. The Vampire was retired from RNZAF service long over a decade before the F-16 was even thought of...
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Have pity on him.

It has to be some sort of "medication" he is on makes him believe they both existed at the same time and dream that the RAAF were given F-111s and have cancelled their F-35s, etc, etc etc.

Ignore him and he will go away like any other obnoxious child.
 
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Reading the American archives lists while looking for what I am really trying to find I see there are a couple of files that may be relevant to the real topic of this thread that some may want to get. The normal delivery time is around five months so this forum will probably be dormant by then but then again???

If anyone wants them PM me and I will send you the details on how to get them. The only cost is the time it takes to order and get.

ABSTRACT -- ITEM HAS MANY MESSAGES THAT ARE UNREADABLE; THE ONES THAT CAN BE READ DEAL WITH SUBJECTS SUCH AS: JB-2 JET BOMB (COPY OF THE GERMAN BUZZ BOMB); OPERATION TINK, TO DISRUPT COMMUNICATIONS AND SUPPLY TO THE BATTLE OF THE BULGE AREA; CITIES AND RAILROADS BETWEEN THE MOSELLE AND RHINE RIVERS; MEDITERRANEAN THEATER AIR FORCES OPERATIONS; 15 AIR FORCE STATISTICAL SUMMARY; "C" DAY DROP OF LEAFLETS AND RATIONS ON PRISONER OF WAR CAMPS; "ECLIPSE" PLAN FOR OPERATIONS; APHRODITE "CASTOR" PLANE OPERATIONS REPORT; A-26 MECHANICAL AND ELECTRICAL PROBLEMS; FIGHTER MARKINGS, PROBLEMS; 15 AIR FORCE WEEKLY ROUND-UPS; AND MOSQUITO AIRCRAFT USED FOR RECONNAISSANCE.
SUBJECT -- LEAFLET OPERATIONS APHRODITE PROJECT TINK OPERATIONS JET BOMBS
******************************
ABSTRACT -- CONTAINS DETAILED ANALYSIS OF CAUSES OF FIGHTER AIRCRAFT FAILING TO COMPLETE COMBAT OR OPERATIONAL MISSION BECAUSE OF MECHANICAL FAILURE. COVERS COMBAT MISSIONS OF P-47 AND P-38 AIRCRAFT.
BEG_DATE -- 08-08-1943 END_DATE -- 12-31-1943
MAIN -- UNITED STATES STRATEGIC AIR FORCES IN EUROPE
note that I could not find similar files on P-39, P-40, P-51, P-61, or for other combat theatres, but that does not mean they do/did not exist
******************************
RECTYPE -- ORAL HISTORY INTERVIEW
ABSTRACT -- TOPICS: P-36 AIRCRAFT; AIRCRAFT SHIPPED IN CRATES TO ALASKA NO REFUELING FACILITIES; P-39 AIRCRAFT FLEW TO ALASKA; STAGING TO UMNAK AND COLD BAY; P-40 AIRCRAFT WHEN WAR STARTED; P. K. MORRELL WITH P-39'S; FIRST RADAR SITE INSTALLED ON MOUNTAIN SOUTH OF DUTCH HARBOR; GROUND OBSERVERS USED; RADAR WENT IN BEFORE DUTCH HARBOR; ARNOLD SAID FOR EVERY SQUADRON THERE WOULD BE THREE; "COMBAT READY" MEANT FULLY EQUIPPED AND MANNED; HYDRAULIC SYSTEMS IN COLD WEATHER; P-38 COMPARED TO P-40; LINDBERGH EXTENDED RANGE OF P-38; P-39 MECHANICAL PROBLEMS, BUT RUSSIANS LOVED IT; LIVING CONDITIONS FOR FAMILIES WERE ROUGH AT MERRILL FIELD, NOW ELMENDORF; LONG MISSIONS; AIRCRAFT LANDING ON PIERCED STEEL PLANKING (PSP); ENGINEERS VERY EFFECTIVE WORKING WITH VOLCANIC ASH AND CORAL; SEA BEES.
DNOTES -- GEN. SILLIN WAS INTERVIEWED BY JOHN H. CLOE OF ALASKAN AIR COMMAND ON 8 AUG 80.
SUBJECT -- P-36 AIRCRAFT SQUADRON/0018/FIGHTER P-39 AIRCRAFT P-40 AIRCRAFT P-38 AIRCRAFT ALEUTIAN CAMPAIGN RADAR SITES, WORLD WAR II CIVIL ENGINEERING, ALASKA ALASKA WORLD WAR II
 
The Americans wanted PR.XVI Mosquitoes, but received, initially, converted B.XX. The B.XX was the Canadian built B.IV.

The performance was somewhat less than for a PR.XVI
 
Clean32 said:
OK not arguing. as as i said based on what i have read in australian press, as i have already said. so the version i read is that General dynamics didn't want to support the last f111s around, i assume this is technical support.
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General Dynamics hasn't existed as an aircraft company for decades!

There's a lot of things you don't know, as you said earlier "google is your friend." You're making statements with no basis, perhaps a figment of your imagination.

Sustainment means the operator could independently support the maintenance and operation of the aircraft.

READ POST 848!!!
 
Clean32 said:
Oh a load of crap is it??
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Actually yes it is. Google might be your friend, but you still are wrong. I would suggest you seperate the facts from fiction and myth.

The Luftwaffe did not award pilots two kills for a Mossie. Any aircraft shot down was one kill, and one kill only.

What you are thoroughly confused with is the points system. The Luftwaffe awarded points, for the purpose of awarding decorations.

Single Engine: 1 pt
Twin Engine: 2 pts
4 Engine: 3 pts

Kills of a Mossie were the same as kills for a P-38. 1 kill, 2 pts.

"The point system had nothing to do with the total number of victories (and claims), only with awarding decorations and promotions through proven ability and worth. Many people think the Luftwaffe awarded multiple kills for multi-engined aircraft and even for damaging them, this is totally false!"

Luftwaffe Score System
 
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Clean32 said:
I added a link to a reporter talking about a documentary who made this statement. so who am i to believe?
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And the reporter is wrong, just like you are. Lots of false things are reported. He is obviously confusing the kill and points system, as many do. And the points had nothing to do with the fact that it was a Mossie, but rather that it had two engines. The P-38 was awarded 2 points as well.

Mossie: 1 kill, 2 pts
P-38: 1 kill, 2 pts
P-51: 1 kill, 1 pt
Spitfire: 1 kill, 1 pt
B-17: 1 kill, 3 pts
Lancaster: 1 kill, 3 pts

The Luftwaffe kill and points system is well documented.
 
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