P-38 or Mosquito?

[the lancaster kicks ass]

As a bomber, the P-38 could carry an equal load with similar performance

there is absolutly no way you can say the P-38 compares to the mossie as a bomber, the mossie could take a bigger payload (5,000+lb) further and faster than the P-38

and only required a single crewman

two crew men is an advantage if anything, admitidly it's a few stone more, that's not a huge differance, but the second crew man eased the workload for the pilot, as he didn't have to worry about navigation, it gave the pilot an extra pair of eyes and there are even stories of the pilot getting injured and the navigator taking the controlls and getting tham both back safely, and the P-38 pilot has a cramped cockpit, he had to fly the thing and figure out where he's going and he doesn't have a second crew member to back him up...............

 

[GermansRGeniuses]

That's not true about the warload, the P-38 could carry 4,000lb (the L at least) and the Mossie could carry 4,000lb. The only difference was that the Mossie could carry it as a single bomb. The P-38, not having a great abundance of pylons or a bomb-bay, had to mix it up, so to speak.

 

[Lightning Guy]

P-38Ls carried as much as 5,200lbs and the cockpit of the P-38 was larger than any British single-seat type including the recon versions of the Spit.

 

[plan_D]

The Recce-Spitfire being a single-engined, and one of the most important recce planes in Europe. Can't knock it.

I read the Mosquito had a 6000lbs maximum bomb load.

 

[Huckebein]

I have to say I can't remember hearing the Mossie carrying any more than 4,000lb, but then the same can be said of the '38 in my experience. Oh, and LG, saying that the P-38's cockpit was bigger than a Spitfire's does not count as an argument against the point that there was more room for a Mosquito pilot...

 

[the lancaster kicks ass]

what the hell's the pint in saying the P-38 was roomier than a spit?? we're not talking about the spit, we're talking about the mossie which DID have more room than a P-38, and the modifications made to the mossie that could carry the cookie also allowed it to carry 2x500lb, bumbing it up to 5000lb, but i wouldn't be supprised if it usualy carried 6,000lb, and ask your self, if the P-38 was so good as a bomber, why was it not used that much, just face it, the P-38 couldn't out bomb the mossie....................

 

[Lightning Guy]

You made the point about the roomie Mossie . . . my point was the P-38 provided more room for a single crewman than most. You also have to remember, the Mossie had to hold two people in all that room. The fact that 1200+ F-4s and F-5s were produced/modified is a testament to their effectiveness as recon planes.

The P-38 proved itself as a level bomber attacking sub pens, airfields, and even the Ploesti oil fields among other targets. You have to remember that the whole of USAAF bombing doctrine was based around the idea of big, gun-covered bombers blasting their way into Germany. With B-17s and B-24s being produced like crazy (eventually totalling more than 31,000 planes) there was no real reason to start using the P-38 in their place. You also have to remember that there was only 1 plant turning out P-38s and that it was the ONLY fighter available in 1943 and early 1944 to provide fighter cover over the German targets. The P-38 proved that it could bomb effectively, but it was too desparately needed as a fighter to commit more resources too it.

 

[the lancaster kicks ass]

ok i looked through al my books last night and this is what i found, as you kept on saying how the P-38J was better than any varient of the mossie, i thought it would be fun to prove you wrong....................

P-38J

Max speed: 414mph
range on internal fuel: 475 miles
ceiling: 44,000ft
payload: 3,200lb


DH Mosquito B.MK XVI

max speed: 415mph
range on internal fuel with max payload: 1,485 miles
ceiling: 37,000ft
payload: 5,000lb

so i make the mossie faster, able to fly further and able to carry allot more in terms of payload. The P-38 has a higher ceiling, but as the mossie was a bomber, it didn't need a huge ceiling anyway..................

 

[plan_D]

Now, now I only said I had read the 6000lbs load. You'll probably find it could have carried 6000lbs but would have struggled to get off the ground. So it being pointless to carry so much.

 

[Lightning Guy]

I'm not making this stuff up. I've read books on the P-38, not books on WWII aircraft that included the P-38. The P-38J was shown to have a top speed of 421mph in USAAF tests (the L was even faster). The often cited range of 475miles on internal fuel was range at MAXIMUM continuous power or cruise when carrying a max bombload. The P-38F was demonstrated to have a range on internal fuel of 1,300miles. That is interesting because the J model carried an extra 110 gallons of internal fuel. That would suggest a range over 1,700miles. And the P-38J was also proved to be capable of carrying 5,200lbs of bombs not 3,200lbs. Just some food for thought.

 

[Erich]

just as an added thought...........anyone of you have the 82nd fighter group history that flew the P-38 and variants ?

curious

Erich ~

 

[Lightning Guy]

Erich, here is a link to their official web site. I imagine it should help you with whatever you are looking for.

http://www.82ndfightergroup.com/

 

[the lancaster kicks ass]

The P-38F was demonstrated to have a range on internal fuel of 1,300miles

That would suggest a range over 1,700miles

the B.XVI had a range of 1,485 on internal fuel with a 5,000lb payload, so i still make that one for the mossie

And the P-38J was also proved to be capable of carrying 5,200lbs

and what would it's range and speed with this load (given that the 5,200 is made of bombs, not fuel)?? and would it need modification, i.e. more underwing hardpoints?? and that payload wasn't normally carried, it just say's it was capible of carrying that, i'm sure you could easily say the mossie "was capible" of carrying more, it just wasn't practical...............

 

[Lightning Guy]

Note: I am not attempting to argue than the P-38 was a better bomber. The Mossie was designed as a bomber and the P-38 as a fighter. The P-38 made a better bomber than the Mossie made fighter.

The 5,200lb load was made up of 2 2,000lb bombs on the standard hardpoints. 4 300lb bombs were carried under the outer-wing. I'm not sure how they were carried and my reference lacks pictures or details. The modifications were done in the field in the Pacific and so I doubt they were very extreme. The P-38's speed with a full bomb-load was impressive. When tested with two torpedoes it's speed loss was only 16%.

 

[Erich]

LG no what I was getting at was do any of you gents have the book ? I do with 10 signatures by pilots of the fg. Also anyone have the book on the 1st fighter group ? I ask this as it may help all of you in your debates covering the Lightinging.....

E ~

 

[the lancaster kicks ass]

I am not attempting to argue than the P-38 was a better bomber

then it's time you admit then that the mossie was the better, as i have agreed that the P-38 was the better fighter, so take it like a man......................

The 5,200lb load was made up of 2 2,000lb bombs on the standard hardpoints. 4 300lb bombs were carried under the outer-wing. I'm not sure how they were carried and my reference lacks pictures or details. The modifications were done in the field in the Pacific and so I doubt they were very extreme

so we can agree that while, ok, it was capibile of carrying 5,200lb, this was an uncommon and proberly unnoficail field modification, and that the maximum payload for the J was 3,200lb.................

 

[Lightning Guy]

The Mossie was the better bomber. The P-38 was the better airplane.
The P-38 was an excellent fighter, and a good bomber. The Mossie was an excellent bomber, but only mediocre as a day fighter. Advantage: P-38.

The 3,200lb load was the maximum for the P-38H. Both the P-38J and L regularly carried 2 2000lb bombs.

 

[plan_D]

The Mosquito was the better night fighter.

 

[the lancaster kicks ass]

The Mossie was the better bomber. The P-38 was the better airplane

how was the P-38 the better aeroplane??

Both the P-38J and L regularly carried 2 2000lb bombs.

i make that 4,000lb, still short of the 5,000lb mark....................

The P-38 was an excellent fighter, and a good bomber. The Mossie was an excellent bomber, but only mediocre as a day fighter. Advantage: P-38.

if that's the case then surely the P-38 was a mediocre bomber?? and you have to remember that the mossie was designed as a bomber, and as Plan_D said, the mossie was the better night fighter, i make that advantage mossie...........................

 

[Donnervogel]

P-38 or Mosquito?-what for a silly Question!

You can not compare these two aircrafts! The P-38 was in the first line a fighter with a very good performance and the Mosquito was a bomber which was built of wood so that the aircraft could fly very highly
- higher then the german fighters (12.000m)