Thumpalumpacus
Lieutenant Colonel
The fact that Rommel -- and other generals -- would be prioritized in no way supports the claim that Quesada personally planned and flew that mission.
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And you think that Gen Quesda would decide that they'd get Rommel sooner or later anyway? Really? I was only in the USAF on active duty for 25 years, but that experience tells me that military officers in a war don't think that way.
To add to the point, one wonders how and why advance intelligence of Rommel's daily travel diary would be dispensed to Quesada. One also wonders who the other members of the 'team' would be? One wonders how four fighter pilots would accurately pick the route on a map, locate the road at the correct moment Rommel was traveling merrily on his way?The fact that Rommel -- and other generals -- would be prioritized in no way supports the claim that Quesada personally planned and flew that mission.
To add to the point, one wonders how and why advance intelligence of Rommel's daily travel diary would be dispensed to Quesada. One also wonders who the other members of the 'team' would be? One wonders how four fighter pilots would accurately pick the route on a map, locate the road at the correct moment Rommel was traveling merrily on his way?
On the surface, the connective tissue between gathering real time info on a general who did not typically have a predictable travel schedule, convey to intelligence to Pete Quesada, and somehow he thinks 'this is my Yamamoto moment, picks up the phone from 9th AF FC - presumably to several pilots he trusts, sez meet me on the flight line at 0900, briefs them on the mission - and take off into the wind., only to arrive on time/on station to pluck the general, seems rather far fetched.
Maybe somebody had Quesada's logbook and or documents regarding the mission to sooth my rampant skepticism.
20mm's with API SAPI and HEI would be far more effective than the .50's, best thing about the P47 is it could take 4-6 easily with a lot of ammunition.I have to go with the P47. The liquid cooled engines were far more likely to be knocked out by a hit to the radiators whereas you had a fighting chance of getting back with a direct hit to the engine of the P47. The P38 was less agile making it an easier target for the AA guns.
The additional guns of the P47 spread out over the wings is also an advantage. There was little the 20mm would take out that the 0.5 couldn't and the extra spread would also cover a bigger area, another plus.
Guns spread out over the wings is a distinct disadvantage for aerial gunnery. The concentration of fire from the P-38 would give it a firepower advantage over every other American fighter of the time.The additional guns of the P47 spread out over the wings is also an advantage.
For traditional aerial gunnery I agree. However we are talking about strafing which is a different requirement. If you are attacking troops on the ground you don't need a concentration of fire. The larger spread when firing at the ground is I believe a distinct advantage.Guns spread out over the wings is a distinct disadvantage for aerial gunnery. The concentration of fire from the P-38 would give it a firepower advantage over every other American fighter of the time.
You have missed an interesting option. How about lighting a fire under Hawker's and Napier's asses, and providing Typhoons and Tempests under reverse Lend Lease? The Thunderbolt's 4.85kg/s mass of fire goes up to 5.2 or 6.5kg/s, depending on which four Hispano cannons are being used. By 1944, the Napier Sabre engines were reliable, Typhoons and Tempests were rugged, and the Tempests were substantially faster at ground attack altitudes. Typhoons were faster than P-47Ds at low altitude.I am trying to figure out whether the P-38 or the P-47 would have been the better strafer / ground support airplane after the P-51 takes over air defense / bomber escort tasks . .
Apologies I didn't make myself clear. My posting was to do with taking damage from ground fire. An LMG round through a radiator is almost certain to stop a liquid cooled engine. An LMG round would have to be very lucky to stop a radial.20mm's with API SAPI and HEI would be far more effective than the .50's, best thing about the P47 is it could take 4-6 easily with a lot of ammunition.
An LMG round through the pilots ears is a sure way to stop ANY engine, whether it be round or in-line. But in all seriousness, where the liquid cooled engine is more vulnerable, the air cooled engine is not invulnerable. Radials relied on oil as a percentage of their cooling, so a hit in an oil line or cooler or tank will also eventually bring it down.An LMG round through a radiator is almost certain to stop a liquid cooled engine. An LMG round would have to be very lucky to stop a radial.
Perhaps the real point is that, with the exception of the He100, not used by the allies in Normandy, radiators are small and hard to hit. Engines, pilots, oil coolers, ammunition, fuel tanks, control cables and primary structure are important too. The Lightnings had two radiators anyway.An LMG round through the pilots ears is a sure way to stop ANY engine, whether it be round or in-line. But in all seriousness, where the liquid cooled engine is more vulnerable, the air cooled engine is not invulnerable. Radials relied on oil as a percentage of their cooling, so a hit in an oil line or cooler or tank will also eventually bring it down.
Pretty sure the Allies (and the Luftwaffe) didn't use the He100.with the exception of the He100, not used by the allies in Normandy
Radiators are not that small and often have a surface area as big as the engine itself. Clearly there is room to differ, its just my belief that the P47 was more rugged and less likely to be hit in the first place.Perhaps the real point is that, with the exception of the He100, not used by the allies in Normandy, radiators are small and hard to hit. Engines, pilots, oil coolers, ammunition, fuel tanks, control cables and primary structure are important too. The Lightnings had two radiators anyway.
Engines are small and hard to hit too. A Tempest is less likelyto be hit than a P-47.Radiators are not that small and often have a surface area as big as the engine itself. Clearly there is room to differ, its just my belief that the P47 was more rugged and less likely to be hit in the first place.
The Tempest has a socking great radiator, making it far more vulnerable.Engines are small and hard to hit too. A Tempest is less likelyto be hit than a P-47.
What happens if they hit the P-47's turbocharger?The Tempest has a socking great radiator, making it far more vulnerable.
What's the frontal area of that radiator and Sabre compared to the ENORMOUS frontal area of the R2800?The Tempest has a socking great radiator, making it far more vulnerable.