P-39/P-63 in VVS service (Kurland front)

Discussion in 'Aviation' started by greybeard, Apr 1, 2016.

  1. greybeard

    greybeard Member

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    I wonder what subtypes of P-39 were in use and actual number of P-63 on the Kurland front from mid 1944 to war's end.

    In addition, it looks most of them had their wing guns removed; is it possible to establish how many of them (a percentage)?

    Thanks for any info,
    GB
     
  2. greybeard

    greybeard Member

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    About wing guns removal, today I found HERE :

    "There is often mentioned that Soviets removed the wing machine guns to improve roll rate by reducing rotational inertia. However, it seems that “removing wing guns” was mainly about gun pods."

    follow interesting photos, showing as the .30 machine guns wing armament was retained.

    The assertion looks backed by Russian pilot memoirs:

    Golodnikov_memories.jpg

    seemingly speaking of a P-39Q.

    There's photographical evidence of this practice:

    P-39Q_no-wing-guns.jpg

    P-39Q.jpg

    although not always followed:

    P-39Q-10_01.jpg

    At this point, I wonder if ANY (or, at least, how many) P-39N had really their wing guns removed (as well as how many P-39Q did retain them...).

    Cheers,
    GB
     
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  3. gjs238

    gjs238 Well-Known Member

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    What do the German reports says about the Soviet P-39's and P-63's?
     
  4. greybeard

    greybeard Member

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    That many of the Soviet "P-39" were actually P-63. Don't know about armament...
     
  5. BiffF15

    BiffF15 Well-Known Member

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    Why does the one have a four bladed prop?
     
  6. tomo pauk

    tomo pauk Creator of Interesting Threads

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    The bigger prop should provide more thrust for same HP. The bigger prop there is also 4-bladed, vs. 3-bladed for most of the P-39s.
     
  7. greybeard

    greybeard Member

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    #7 greybeard, Apr 3, 2016
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2016
    Should be a P-39D-21 or -25... (These were the only two production batches having a 4-blade prop; reverted to 3-blade prop from next batch P-39D-30 since causing loss of directional stability).
     
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  8. BiffF15

    BiffF15 Well-Known Member

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    Excellent info! Did not know the P-39 came with the four bladed prop in any variant! The greater thrust is evident in the Mustang and P-63 by increasingly larger vertical tails!
     
  9. greybeard

    greybeard Member

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    Propeller converts power into thrust. This is made with a certain efficiency. As a general rule: more blades = less efficiency. But also peripheral speed matters: when it gets transonic, efficiency drops. So may be better to increase number of blades and reduce speed.
     
  10. michaelmaltby

    michaelmaltby Well-Known Member

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  11. Old Wizard

    Old Wizard Well-Known Member

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  12. GregP

    GregP Well-Known Member

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    If you add too much horsepower coupled with the 4-blade prop, you destabilize completely due to the added of forward area without an accompanying addition in tail area. Mike Carroll found out when he had a fatal crash in a P-39 with a souped-up engine and P-63 4-bladed prop. It was unflyable under complete control but managed to take off.

    The P-63 was larger, with a longer rudder arm. That made the difference.
     
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  13. Capt. Vick

    Capt. Vick Well-Known Member

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    What is the attachment on the rear of the last photo? Glider tug? Anti-spin parachute mount? Anyone know?
     
  14. bobbysocks

    bobbysocks Well-Known Member

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    for towing targets???? NO its a selfie stick!!
     
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  15. Capt. Vick

    Capt. Vick Well-Known Member

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  16. kool kitty89

    kool kitty89 Well-Known Member

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    That would be P-39Q not D, going by Joe Bougher's site:
    Bell P-39Q Airacobra


    Also note the mention of wing guns being omitted at the manufacturer.


    I believe the Soviets also often removed the .30 cal wing guns from earlier P-39 models to save weight. (and preferred the centerline armament in general along with .30 caliber ammunition being rather light -I assume it was more useful for strafing certain soft targets in US use as a ground-pounder, possibly also more useful against some Japanese aircraft though increasingly less so late-war; in US use the ammunition load at least appears to have been greatly reduced in service, with the 1000 RPG capacity almost never used, and loads as low as 300 RPG noted as standard in some documents, which would mean shorter firing time than the .50 cal nose guns)
     
  17. fubar57

    fubar57 Well-Known Member

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    Found this online...

    Untitled3.jpg untitled4.JPG
    I've tried to translate it but Google Translate went full retard. I don't think anything there spells "selfie". Wojtek..............................?

    Geo
     
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