P-47, 1943 in ETO: achivements?

[Milosh]

There was ~226 Bf109G-6/AS a/c converted from G-6 airframes between May and August 1944.

Production of Bf109G-14s began in July 1944.

 

[davebender]

To a large extent Allies had already won air war by the end of 1943. Germany was producing enough fighter aircraft but could not produce enough aviation gasoline to fully support operations and training. That's what happens when a medium size nation must scatter military forces over most of Europe.

 

[alejandro_]

Was the turbocharger really very expensive in 1940s?

Calculating financial values in these aircrafts is complicated. You can use the Corsair (supercharger) and Thunderbolt (turbocharger) to get an idea. Other countries did not pursue the design and fielding of these devices because of the cost.

After WW2 Yugoslav Air Force conducted a comparison with several fighter aircraft from USSR, UK, Germany and USA. The P-47 was the clear winner in boom zoom engagements. The Bf 109 G6/G10 was in a lot of problems if the P-47 had a 700-1000 meter height advantage. It was also the only type capable of intercepting Mosquito (regularly).

 

[tomo pauk]

I'll politely ask the members to point me/us to the cost figures of the other R-2800 fighters. The seemingly complicated wing of the Corsair might skew the bottom line somewhat?

After WW2 Yugoslav Air Force conducted a comparison with several fighter aircraft from USSR, UK, Germany and USA. The P-47 was the clear winner in boom zoom engagements. The Bf 109 G6/G10 was in a lot of problems if the P-47 had a 700-1000 meter height advantage. It was also the only type capable of intercepting Mosquito (regularly).

The G6 is whole another ballgame than the G10; the P-47 is in lots of problems if the G10 has such altitude advantage. Could you pleas provide a link to the tests?

 

[Milosh]

OK different engines but in 1944 a P-38 cost $97,147 and a P-47 cost $85,578. In 1943 there was only ~$1200 difference.

Not confirmed but a F4U-4 cost ~$88,000 with the engine being about the 1/2 cost.

 

[tomo pauk]

F4U was 1945 machine, the P-47 compares well:

Here is claimed that average cost of the F4U was 75000 $, the F6F was 12000 $ cheaper than F4U!

 

[alejandro_]

The G6 is whole another ballgame than the G10; the P-47 is in lots of problems if the G10 has such altitude advantage. Could you pleas provide a link to the tests?

Currently I have only been able to find comments, but no official link. You can find original comment on:

Does Anyone Know Where Hub Zemke Is Buried? - Tanknet

Post by Bojan

I'll politely ask the members to point me/us to the cost figures of the other R-2800 fighters. The seemingly complicated wing of the Corsair might skew the bottom line somewhat?

I probably got carried away a bit when I made the statement, I will try to find some figures to check if correct.

 

[davebender]

Bf 109 G6/G10 was in a lot of problems if the P-47 had a 700-1000 meter height advantage

The reverse is also true. Any fighter aircraft with 1,000 meter height advantage can dictate the engagement or avoid it entirely.

Aircraft with superior rate of climb have a better then even chance to gain an altitude advantage.

Me-109 climb rate was among the best for the entire aircraft service life. Instantaneous dive rate was among the best too. So bouncing a Me-109 from superior altitude was easier said then done.

 

[Mike Williams]

What was real importance of the P-47 to the Allied war effort, in 1943, in ETO? How much it was a hindrance to the LW fighter arm that was trying to tackle the heavies?

Hi Tomo,

I think that in order to understand the accomplishments of the P-47 in the ETO during 1943 we need to have a basic understanding of the operational histories of the P-47 units - the missions they flew and the kills/mission successes they achieved against the Luftwaffe. It would take a fair bit of research to pull this all together. I don't have a lot of time to go into at the moment but a starting point might be an examination assessment of the following units during the period in question:

First operational mission:
4th FG March 10, 1943
56th FG April 13, 1943
78th FG April 8, 1943
352nd FG September 9, 1943
353rd FG August 9, 1943
355th FG September 14, 1943
356th FG October 15, 1943
359th FG December 13, 1943

A relevant follow on question might be, to what extent did the experience gained by the P-47 units in 1943 lead to the destruction of the Luftwaffe by the 8th 9th Air Forces in 1944/45?

 

[drgondog]

I would argue that the combination of Luftwaffe directive to the Fighter arm to 'ignore' US escorts along with steadily increasing of high (er) time replacements and new units (like 354 and 357FG) enabled the USAAF to develop leadership top to bottom, develop tactics and lessons learned - then transition to long range escort in a flood.

There was no steady attrition in the early Jug Fighter Groups and for the most part, all of them had been immersed in air combat, and for the most part the LW pilot wasn't sticking around to use their courage and experience to bloody our noses and thin out the ranks.

From my perspective the single worst outcome that could have happened - did. The US fighter pilot became very aggressive and universally adapted to the mantra "Attack' - which was a very deadly combination when the fighter platform met or exceeded the adversary and the pilots now had the skill, experience and numbers to hammer the LW over Germany.

In effect, the 8th and 9th AF woke up one morning and realized "Hey, I don't have to return home anymore while you bunch up and hit our bombers. Doom on You."

 

[airminded88]

Is any of you guys aware that yesterday was the 70th anniversary of the operational introduction of the P-47 in the ETO?
Time sure flies!!

 

[gjs238]

Good pun

 

[tomo pauk]

Some excerpts, from German radio transmissions, about what LW fighters were doing when P-47 was escorting bombers in 1943 can be read here. Thanks, Steve (stona); maybe you have more of those?