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The attached is from the 1976 book, "P-47 Thunderbolt at War" but obviously repeats material from some USAAF official report. The results of the flight tests seem quite surprising to me. Everyone "knows" that a P-47 can't win a dogfight with an FW-190 except perhaps over 25,000 ft. But that is not what the test flights show. View attachment 592077View attachment 592078
Slightly random question, but ages ago I found a combat report, between a P-47 group who encountered some Fw190 D9`s, probably for the first time.
Really annoyingly I didn't write down the source, and I cant find the damn thing now, only a quote from it which
I scribbled down myself.
Does anyone recognise this ? - I was fairly sure it was from M Mike Williams website:
P-47 Encounter Reports
However, I`ve looked through EVERY viable report for 190 D`s in that list (i.e everything after about mid-1944) and cant see it,
however, there are 2 or 3 reports in that list which are coming up as dead-links, maybe it was one of those, example:
http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.org/p-47/er/78-fish-19dec44.jpg
Anyway, if anyone recognizes it, please let me know, cheers! (the graphic is mine, in the actual report its obviously
a 1944 period typewritten memo, this below is just how it appears in a powerpoint I have where I pasted the text in)
View attachment 623868
I fixed the link to Frank Fish's Encounter Report for 19 Dec 44: I don't think its the one you are looking for though. I'll check for the one you want when I get a chance.
Some of this was covered before, such as the fact that one pilot had no combat experience (ironically flying the Fw 190) while the other flew 17 months of combat (albeit in a plane he wasn't trained in, but he still knew some stuff the non-combat pilot wouldn't).The attached is from the 1976 book, "P-47 Thunderbolt at War" but obviously repeats material from some USAAF official report. The results of the flight tests seem quite surprising to me. Everyone "knows" that a P-47 can't win a dogfight with an FW-190 except perhaps over 25,000 ft. But that is not what the test flights show.
Some of this was covered before, such as the fact that one pilot had no combat experience (ironically flying the Fw 190) while the other flew 17 months of combat (albeit in a plane he wasn't trained in, but he still knew some stuff the non-combat pilot wouldn't).
Looking at the figures the Fw 190 generally did better at lower speeds and altitudes with superior acceleration at lower speeds and a tighter turning circle, with the P-47 having an advantage in the controls apparently lightening up (or at least stiffening less) as speed went up. The climb figures seem based on zoom climb rather than sustained climb performance (), with the dive figures being pretty self-explanatory (that said, I'm surprised the P-47 had such a marked advantage in dives as I knew both planes were good).
While roll-rate didn't appear to have been mentioned, I would assume that the Fw-190 had an advantage in that department (though I'm not sure by how much).
and never turned hard enough to get away.
New versions of a fighter ALWAYS took the opposition by surprise since they were used to the old version and any new capabilities would certainly not be anticipated.
In the case the the Fw 190D, the difference in top speed (mostly published as about 433 mph vs. 426 mph) is well within normal airframe variance. Also, because the P-47D could not lose the Fw 190D does not mean the opposite could not be true. That is, if the P-47D got on the tail of the Fw 190D, I'm not sure the Fw 190D could lose the P-47, either. Depending on altitude, it might be a case of virtual parity, depending on pilot as well.
Most encounter reports seem to favor whoever was able to evade the other or whoever was able to make the kill. And many kills were made when the victim was not aware he was being attached when he died.
I am reminded of the encounter reports of the Ta -152H versus the Hawker Tempest late in the war (willy Reschke). It is likely the Tempest pilots had never seen a Ta 152, did not anticipate its capabilities, and never turned hard enough to get away. Not saying that is what actually happened ... I am saying it is likely since the Tempest pilots had never seen a Ta 152 before. The encounter was al low altitude, not the environment where the Ta 152H was designed for.