P-47D or F4U-1?

[Sal Monella]

http://img280.imageshack.us/img280/6853/fig033hp.jpg

http://img377.imageshack.us/img377/6500/p47dclimbandspeed7kd.jpg

Was the P-47D with the paddle blade better than the F4U-1?

 

[Jank]

The P-47D with the paddle blade can reach 20,000ft in 7 minutes. The F4U-1reaches 20,000ft in 7.5 minutes.

I found this surprising. With slightly better climb, speed and clearly superior roll, dive and firepower, as long as the P-47 stays out of a tight turning fight, it looks like it could come out on top.

 

[Sal Monella]

Does the Thunderbolt have a better roll rate than the Corsair? I didn't know that.

I too was surprised at that climb rate data. The paddle blade transformed the Jug into a competent air to air ship.

I agree though that in a turning fight (especially at low altitude), the Corsair would probably wax it.

I think the advantages the Jug has would probably grow with the increase in altitude where its turbosupercharger could really pour on the horsepower.

 

[syscom3]

The P47 was a good "roller" at high altitude.

 

[Jank]

Climb at S/L - 3,100fpm (Corsair) 3,200fpm (Thunderbolt)

Climb at 10,000ft. - 2,975fpm (Corsair) 3,050fpm (Thunderbolt)

Climb at 15,000ft. - 2,700fpm (Corsair) 2,900fpm (Thunderbolt)

Climb at 20,000ft. - 2,250fpm (Corsair) 2,650fpm (Thunderbolt)

Max Speed at S/L - 353mph (Corsair) 340 mph (Thunderbolt)

Max Speed at 20,000ft. - 405mph (Corsair) 415 mph (Thunderbolt)

 

[elmilitaro]

Nice info.

 

[Sal Monella]

Yes, good info. Looks like you plotted that data from the performance charts.

 

[wmaxt]

Climb at S/L - 3,100fpm (Corsair) 3,200fpm (Thunderbolt)

Climb at 10,000ft. - 2,975fpm (Corsair) 3,050fpm (Thunderbolt)

Climb at 15,000ft. - 2,700fpm (Corsair) 2,900fpm (Thunderbolt)

Climb at 20,000ft. - 2,250fpm (Corsair) 2,650fpm (Thunderbolt)

Max Speed at S/L - 353mph (Corsair) 340 mph (Thunderbolt)

Max Speed at 20,000ft. - 405mph (Corsair) 415 mph (Thunderbolt)

Most sources post a top speed for the F4U-1 at 417mph - 420mph.

Vought actualy reduced the roll rate on the Corsair because the prototype rolled to quickly and easily.

wmaxt

 

[elmilitaro]

Hmmm, didn't know that.

 

[Jank]

Wmaxt, the chart for the F4U-1 shows exactly that. At 25,000ft, the top speed is 420mph. At 20,000ft, the top speed is 405mph.

 

[Twitch]

Here's a factor to consider in ALL of these comparos. An aircraft engine is set up by the factory to produce best speeds at certain altitudes relative to boost, supercharger, turbo settings and carburation due to air density, temperature and grains of water per cubic foot of ingested air.

Remember crew chiefs hotrodded Mustangs, Tempests and others to pull max power levels below 10,000 feet for V-1 intercepts. When we compare speed levels at altitudes we must realize that to 2 planes at the same altitude will have different performance even if they both have the same top speeds at their respective best performing altitudes.

If a plane goes 410 MPH at 27,000 feet and another makes 410 at 19,500 feet if they meet at either specified level one will lack power and speed. If they mix it up at an arbitrary altitude both will have lesser top ends.

 

[Jank]

Twitch, you are correct, of course, which is why I provided data points for the same altitudes for both aircraft.

The 2,535 hp paddle blade and water injection "D" model was a different animal indeed. Who would have thought that it could match/out perform an F4U-1 in climb rate?

 

[chris mcmillin]

Most sources post a top speed for the F4U-1 at 417mph - 420mph.

Vought actualy reduced the roll rate on the Corsair because the prototype rolled to quickly and easily.

wmaxt

The critical altitude (max altitude in which the engine produces max power) is most likely higher than 20,000 feet for the Corsair and certainly higher for the Thunderbolt. The higher the engine makes max power, the faster the airframe will go because the drag gets less the higher it goes.
Chris...

 

[helmitsmit]

I heard that the Jug had a **** roll rate and it's turning was awful. Diving was it's strongest allie.

 

[Sal Monella]

The F4U-1 can pull 2,000hp as high as 19,000ft. After that it begins to steadily drop off. At 25,000ft, it's pulling 1,500hp.

The chart on the P-47 doesn't indicate the H.P. curve but I recall from memory that the P-47D could pull 100% at close to 30,000ft.

 

[Twitch]

P-47 roll rates were quite good. Bob Johnson out rolled enemy planes all the time. Fred Christensen related a combat he was in with Adolf Galland where they ended up doinf circular elevtor turns neither gaining on the other. The Jug literally held its own against a 109 in that respect. This is out of the mouth of one of the top P-47 aces to me.

There are accounts of wild turning combats at tree top level P-47 versus 109s or 190s. Don Gentile related an account of one of those and survived. The dry and stuffy figures that claim "The P-XX has a turning radius of XX at XXX MPH at XX,XXX altitude," are just so much data for data's sake. Since combats don't take place in vacuums under clinical conditions we will find surprising outcomes when we factor in pilots audacious and aggressiveness.

Just don't believe everything you hear about alleged performance limitations.

 

[syscom3]

I know the P47 (and the P38) had an effective turbocharger system that maintained a flat power rating throughout any altitude.

I wonder if the F4U had a similar system?

 

[Sal Monella]

The P-47D can maintain all of it's power up to about 28,000ft. The Corsair can maintain 2,000hp up to 19,000ft and by 25,000ft, she's down to 1,550hp.

The Corsair was never designed to be a high altitude aircraft.

 

[lesofprimus]

The Corsair was never designed to be a high altitude aircraft.

My point exactly..... Compare the 2 craft at their optimum combat altitudes......

 

[helmitsmit]

good point.