Ad: This forum contains affiliate links to products on Amazon and eBay. More information in Terms and rules
Erich said:here might be a spot to enter an interesting note. Tony Hackl a bomber/fighter killer preferred the 109G-6/AS to take on US fighter escorts and then the Fw 190A-8 to take on US heavy bombers.........
so what is this telling us guys ? I have said repeatedly the 109 was superior at high altitiude and the Fw 190A was the overall best defence prop job against the heavy bomber pulks
Erich said:here might be a spot to enter an interesting note. Tony Hackl a bomber/fighter killer preferred the 109G-6/AS to take on US fighter escorts and then the Fw 190A-8 to take on US heavy bombers.........
so what is this telling us guys ? I have said repeatedly the 109 was superior at high altitiude and the Fw 190A was the overall best defence prop job against the heavy bomber pulks
Udet said:Whatever records you might have consulted, all I can tell you is have fun! Continue to sing the same old allied song.
Whatever!
DerAdlerIstGelandet said:No one is argueing what kind of Pilots the Germans were and what kind of aircraft they had. I think everyone has agreed the Bf-109 and the Fw-190 were some of the best aircraft to see action. I think if you read the posts again you will see that everyone has agreed to that.
wmaxt said:No. the P-40 was never intended to escort and the P-51 was originaly to be P-40s
Originally yes, but later on, before the normandy campaign, it was re-designed and intended partly for escort duty.
Escort was not contemplated even by the AAF. At that time self escort was the stratagy. I've also never read escort mentioned in reference to the P-51 until the Merlin conversion showed low fuel consumption in early '43.
Well, I am talking about the Merlin equipped P-51.
This includes imterviews with the P-51 designers. In fact the A-36/Mustang I version stopped production for two months in early '43 because it was not enough of an improvement over anything else - the Merlin/realization that escort was required saved it.
And I don't disagree with any of this... All im saying is that the P-51's flying over europe 'were' designed and intended, amongst other things, as escort fighters.
Numbers, tactics and pilot training/experiance do to. I think the P-51 is way overated (the P-38 is quite a bit better in virtualy every respect) but it could and did hold it's own in combat, with/without numbers
The P-51 was a good overall fighter, but not a good dogfighter...
When up against a Bf-109 piloted by a well trained LW pilot, the P-51 better be superior in numbers, or the P-51 was almost surely going to be shot down. A lonely dogfight with a well piloted 109 would almost guarantee disaster for a P-51.
Luckily for the P-51, it was vastly superior in numbers.
, even with the majority of Fw-190 encounters and I consider the Fw-190 quite a bit better than the Bf-109. The 109K was a better match to the P-51 but they were late and few.
THE 'only' reason someone could rate the 190 a better a/c than the 109, would be because of its easier controls and handling characteristics for fresh pilots. With an experienced pilot, the Bf-109 was quite a bit better than the Fw-190 as a pure fighter, with the exception of the 190D-9 which is up there with it though.
What happens in about a month??? U gettin access to some unseen archives???Les in about a month I will be able to truely stae whether or not Dahl and Bauer are full of crap or not.