P-61 with "air brakes"

[bentwings]

Hi,
My son and I are just getting started on a large R/C scale model of the P-61 Black Widow. I have only one very small picture of the P-61 C with the "fighter brakes". We would like to model this rare variant and possible make these really work. The model has 114" wing so it is pretty big. We may actually build two set of outer wing panels one with the fighter brakes and the other with just the spoilers. The spoilers really work and are a proven feature. Several guys have built the plane with just the spoilers and no ailerons at all.

The fighter brake version uses a conventional aileron at the very tip of the wing. The fighter brake replaced the spoilers. I think only 45 of this version were ever built but that's about the limit of my knowledge.

Can anyone help with a couple pictures so I can develope what these really looked like.???

As near as I can tell they looked like an angle iron gate that pivoted at about the center of the wing and they rose up forward from the trailing edge both top and bottom. Obviously hydraulic operation.

thanks

bentwings

 

[Micdrow]

Here you go, some pictures from squadron signal P-61 and Warbird tech P-61

Hope it helps.

 

[Wurger]

Hi Micdrow,

Nice pics you've uploaded there.
For sure very helpful for Bentwings.

 

[Micdrow]

Thanks Wurger

 

[bentwings]

Micdrow, thanks for the great pictures!!!! I can't wait to get into making these things!!! They are so ugly they are beautiful. haha I'll model them up on Solidworks first to get everything working correctly.

I see how they work too. It looks like the upper acted like a booster for the lower so it didn't take a lot of power to operate them. I'll have to make an internal linkage to do this too. We'll use 150 oz servos on each side to run them. Maybe 2 servos on each side. I sure would hate to see the results if one failed. haha About all you could do is kick dirt over the remains and walk away. haha With a gallon of gas aboard you may not even have to do that...just fill in the smoking hole.

thanks again

 

[Thorlifter]

I sure would like to see some video of your P-61 flying. Do you think that will be possible?

 

[bentwings]

Our B-25 will be ready to go in the spring and the P-61 will follow. We'll have video and possibly onboard too. We are making hard points already on the B-25.

 

[Micdrow]

Your welcome bentwings, glad I could help.

 

[Downwind.Maddl-Land]

I say! Those so-and-sos will carve off a few knots when they pop! I trust the crews' straps were tight....

 

[bentwings]

Thanks for the pictures We will be just crazy enough to try these. Did these fit into
thanks

Some kind of slots orfidvyheybjudtvreplscevthevdtanfsrdcdpoilrrs ? If I can get some kind of mag glas maybe I can make these out of aluminum sheet or small angle. By the time we get ready we will have enough radio so therecwill be 3 axis gyro available to help with the unusual events. We have been talking about incorporating engine control with rudder so even serious event like only one side operating or only half iv one side we could maintain control . We have the rudder control so we should be able to add the engine control . It will be a matter of testing . I don't know if the flight sim will go this far. From what I've seen of the P 61 they fly about the same as b 25. The p 61 seems faster but guys are using big engines on them too


Thanks again for the pictures

 

[fubar57]

YIKES!!!!

 

[bentwings]

Here you go, some pictures from squadron signal P-61 and Warbird tech P-61

Hope it helps.

Yikes those things at so ugly they are a nightmare reports said with proper control input yhe p61 coil easil out gun the best of warbird , p 51 p47 zero Corsair hell cat. Even a good pilot could make a b 25 out turn them with throttle control. For scale competition these would be outstanding. My vision is poor so I'll be relighted to instructor in building A little sheet metal work or 3 d printing could make some cool parts next on the scale feature list is the early Martin baker ejection set pioneered on yhe p 61. I've seen only two photos on in place and one in action so these will have to be " looks scale so must be scale you have to document this stuff but there is allowance for deviation. The seat brings up how the canopy was hinged or if it was ejected since there was pilot and radar operator and they aren't equally spaced I'd assume the top of the canopy was ejected. It was a two stage mini rocket so some kind of compressed air thing would work you are not allow pyrotechnics in Rc models. I'm moving to Tenn in the fall so I'll be closer to the model building . There will be 3. Air forces represented and possibly a fourth if we build another Corsair.
I was reminiscing old drag racing days with the owner of the funny car I drove. It was supercharged alcohol fuel . Ironically I was into Ww2 fighter engine development . Actually he Germans were probably the leaders as their fuel was no better than our street cars use they did lots of engineering and testing at the time of the racer the internet was just starting so I was a library rat in what little time I had beyond the racer I found lots of papers about how alcohol burns and how it worked with radical boost and very high compression ratios . Twisting this around I adapted as much as I could . Other we're doing this too so racing was very competitive. Everyone was looking to see what the front runners were doing we happened to be in that group. Often it was said, don't you guys ever stay home ( not wanting to run us first round. There lots of mis informed guys and dreamers but using research we tried to use what had been published and take advantage of this we kept good notes( I was also in engineering school. ) So it wasn't hard to separate good from misinformed alcohol does not detonate easily you can use lots of boost and or compression Simply put it Carie's a little of its own oxygen but in combustion it simply burns all the oxygen in the chamber before it can detonate. Todsyvracer use upward of 60 pounds of boost and 12:1 comp ratio When they push the edge too far it squished the rod Beaton uppers out this is used rather than reading spark plugs that was a regular maintenance thing. We didn't know this atvthe time but it was just something we noted and did Because of the extreme pressure involved the early cast iron blocks often split up the middle we lost a few this way the new solid aluminum block cure this so crankshaft strength is an issue. I'm glad we retired when we did as costs have skyrocketed. Our win loss record left us with a few dollars in the bank. There lots of ways to spend that but we used reliability and tried to eliminate broken parts. And be ready for the next round. IE let the other guy bust parts trying to beat us . We don't use alcohol in Rc models much as we don't need issues. Basically the same thing reliability and flying skill are way is needed in scale competition. Flying the required maneuvers perfectly and the optional ones are what counts speed is only secondary if it looks scale speed it's ok. Actual mph didn't count. Spell doesn't scale well if. So yhe cool p 61 feature will be hard to beat if we can make them work it looks good


Thanks for them pictures
M


Well sorry for all the spelling errors this spell check has a mind of its own. If this is the future of artificial intelligence either the creator or subject needs to go back to school. It's bad enough that I have to use a pick instead of fingers to type with but at least it could leave my note alone

 

[bentwings]

I noted the details with my son and he thinks it would be a show stopper to have pilot and radar eject then the gunner could eject down his slide. Popping the fighter brakes out of a dive would be cool. There are sound effects that guys are using now that have gun fire explosions engine sounds you name it . By using ground speakers you can simulate cockpit voice too . He has a nice me 109so if we can get a good warbird pilot we could simulate combat. This is dangerous in Rc as you are standing on the ground so spatial orientation is really tough. I did this with my big Corsair and nearly had a huge mid air over taking a big zero. Probably inches. We had to stop because even with a good spotter you just could not react fast enough.

 

[special ed]

Can we hear the crew screaming when ejecting. Just a thought from another modeller. A fellow model club member had two crew bail out from his B-10 model. One chute opened, the second crewman bounced on the pavement, then chute opened and floated down properly. The judges gave 1/2 points for the option. Discussions were unsuccessful, as we argued both chutes opened, the judges said the model's crewman died, however that (survivability) was not in the rule book.

 

[bentwings]

Can we hear the crew screaming when ejecting. Just a thought from another modeller. A fellow model club member had two crew bail out from his B-10 model. One chute opened, the second crewman bounced on the pavement, then chute opened and floated down properly. The judges gave 1/2 points for the option. Discussions were unsuccessful, as we argued both chutes opened, the judges said the model's crewman died, however that (survivability) was not in the rule book.

Funny. We are working on a smoke system so the plane can land with one engine smoking.