p-80 V Me 262

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Morai_Milo said:
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Adler, the P.1101V1 was not completed by the end of Apr '45. It was still many, many months away from production and still had to be test flown. The Americans even thought of having the Germans finish the a/c for them, so they did not have to.
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Did I give an exact date that the P.1101 was going to test fly? Nope sure did not. However it was closer to test flight than the Ta-183 and the Ta-183 was scheduled to fly May/June 1945.
 
What if the F-14 and the Me-262 squared off. Its silly since there were no F-14s in the air during WWII. The Luftwaffe had the Me-262 operational and it was being improved on when the war came to an end. Any allied development of jet fighters would have been behind the development of German jets and the pilots that flew the new allied aircraft would not have had the experience that the German jet pilots had. These what if questions can be interesting but they are no different than saying which is better a Klingon Battle Crusier or a Goa'uld Ha'tak
 
DerAdlerIstGelandet said:
Did I give an exact date that the P.1101 was going to test fly? Nope sure did not. However it was closer to test flight than the Ta-183 and the Ta-183 was scheduled to fly May/June 1945.
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No you didn't but you did say: "ready for test flights" which I read as completed > just add gas and a pilot.

Both were ready for test flights when the aircraft were captured at the end of the war.
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The P.1101 was ready for test flight and when the facility was overun.
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The P1101 was nowhere near ready but for sure a lot closer than the Ta183. A flight capable engine being a main reason.

Strange that you say the Ta183 was to be ready for test flights in May/June 1945 when by April 1945 all the plants capable of making it had been over-run and only the detailed drawings had been completed with airframe construction not even started. (from what I can find) Bit hard to believe from paper to finished product in ~4-8 weeks.
 
That is pretty silly.........
 
Morai it may be impossible for you to understand but humans sometimes make mistakes - I'm sure Adler wrote off of memory to begin with.
 
Well, I read a book 'Jagd Pilot' or something , by the guy who first flew the Me-163 successfully..(an earlier pilot had tried and died)

a great book BTW..

He said the Me262 had two engines, for reliability..
Unfortunately, it would not fly on only one engine.

So the odds of an catastrophic engine failure was doubled..

Major bummer..

So even if the engines were equal in reliability


The odds of a failure were against the 262
 
lesofprimus said:
Hehe, too true Erich... The next generation 262 would be meeting the P-80, so the comparison is irrelevant... The 262 was and would have been better in a fight..
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I dont know if the 262 would have been better in a dogfight, as compared to the P80.

Those two big engines pods slung under the wings would inhibit its instantaneous roll rate.

The 262 was an interceptor, the P80 a dogfighter. Two different beasts for two different requirements.
 
We could "what if" this forever.

Simple fact is thet never fought, so we DON'T know. I'd say the P-80 had the performance edge, but only very slightly.

In these cases, the real winner is usually decided by the pilot skill. The Germans had their best in the jets, and if the U.S.A. had sent jets (I know about the 2 P-80s sent to Italy - no combat), we'd have had our best in them, too.

So ... I'd say that they would have been pretty damned equal with pilots making the difference.

You, of course, are fre to disagree ...
 
After the war some 262's went to Muroc and were flown by Chuck Yeager and others. He said in his book that he felt the P-80 and 262 handled about the same with no appreciable advantages to either taking into account he only had a few hours left on his 262 engine's TBO.

I agree it would come down to pilot skill.
 
To be precise: the 2 P80 shipped to Italy were based in the deep south, not in the north (Lesina being roughly on the 'heel' of Italy 'boot')

Being the front 400+ miles north and being several US airports available closer to front , it does not look like the USAAF was planning to dogfight with other jets, the P80 location made impossible for them to reach Germany and barely in range to shortly patrol the area where the 3 Arado 234 were flying their recce.

Probably the P80 in Italy were just deployed to test the field logistics for a jet aircraft, not with the intention to mix up with Luftwaffe.
 
I think the p-80 had a little preformance advantage over the 262. The 2 engines of the 262 must have affected the roll rate and turn radius etc. The mk 108 was also pretty slow firing, and I think this is pretty crucial in a dog fight were planes go from one side to another in a split second.

On the other hand, the germans had allready used the 262 for 3/4 of a year when the first 2 p-80 came to europe, so german jet pilots had practised. They knew the strenghts and weaknesses of their jets in combat. The americans still had to learn this.

So I think that the first dogfights would have been won by the 262, but its pure guessing work.

Tom
 
The P-80 weight 1,000 pounds less than the -262. That will effect maneuvability and acceleration. I still believe the p-80 "would of" been more maneuverable than the -262.

Would of, could of , should of - of course we're all guessing.
 

Every source on the matter will say that the aircraft was scheduled for a test flight in May/June 1945 time frame. I will leave it at that because I dont think there is anything that I can say that you will dispute unless it is about Luftwaffe Sucks!
 
"On February 28, 1945, the Luftwaffe High Command examined the various Emergency Fighter proposals and selected the Ta 183 to be developed and produced. Sixteen prototypes were to be built, allowing the tail unit to be interchanged between the Design II and III variations. Of the Versuchs (experimental test series) aircraft the Ta 183 V1-V3 were to be powered by the Jumo 004B turbojet, pending delivery of the He S 011 jet engine. The Ta 183 V4-V14 were 0-series preproduction aircraft and V15-V16 were to be static test aircraft. The first flight of the aircraft was projected for May 1945 but none were completed by April 8, 1945, when British troops captured the Focke-Wulf facilities."

Focke-Wulf Ta 183 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Focke Wulfe Fw Ta-183

Focke-Wulf Ta 183 Luft '46 entry

"On Febuary 27 and 28, 1945, the Emergency Fighter Competition conference was held by the OKL (High Command of the Luftwaffe), and the Ta 183 was chosen to be developed and produced. There were to be sixteen Versuchs (experimental test series) aircraft: the Ta 183 V1-V3 to be powered by the Jumo 004B turbojet, pending delivery of the He S 011 jet engine, the Ta 183 V4-V14 as 0-series preproduction aircraft and V15-V16 as static test aircraft. The maiden flight of the first aircraft was planned for May/June of 1945, and was to test both the Design II and Design III tail configuration. The first production aircraft were scheduled to be completed by October 1945, but no examples of the Ta 183 were completed because on April 8, 1945 British troops captured the Focke-Wulf facilities."
 
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