PARTS OF B17

Discussion in 'Aircraft Requests' started by Kurtl, Aug 15, 2006.

  1. Kurtl

    Kurtl Member

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2006
    Messages:
    114
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Hello everyone!

    I am from Austria/Europe and found some parts of an Airplane at a B17 crashplace. The B17 which crashed there on May, 10th 1944 was the "The Irish Orphans" and the serial number was 42-31685 or 42-31804. I am not sure about the serial number. I just know that the pilot's name was Stanley Dwyer and that he is still MIA.
    I am looking for the crew list and any information which are available. Does anyone know what the "42" in the serial number means? Maybe the year when the plane was built?
    At one of the parts I found there was a serial number. Actually I found two numbers: 3-14911 and 6-10473. Next to the first serial number I found a sign which I redrew on a piece of paper (see picture). Maybe somebody has a spare part list of a B17G? I would appreciate any kind of help. So does anyone know what kind of parts these pictures show?

    Many thanks in advance,

    Kurtl
     

    Attached Files:

  2. the lancaster kicks ass

    the lancaster kicks ass Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2003
    Messages:
    19,980
    Likes Received:
    4
    Trophy Points:
    38
    the 42 is for the year the serial was issued... and that's the extent of my knowledge on the subject........
     
  3. evangilder

    evangilder "Shooter"
    Staff Member Administrator

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2004
    Messages:
    19,419
    Likes Received:
    137
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Occupation:
    Network Engineer/Photographer
    Location:
    Moorpark, CA
    Home Page:
    I can't really help with parts identification, but sometimes the numbers are manufacturing numbers or lot numbers.

    Stanley Dwyer was flying 42-31685 on a mission from Celone (Foggia) Italy over Weiner Neustadt on May 10, 1944. After bombs away, the group was attacked by 50-60 fighters and the aircraft became MIA.

    To help avoid any confusion, aircraft 42-31685 was called "Pete's Playhouse". The book on the history of the 775th bombardment squadron is called "Allyn's Irish Orphans".

    42-31685 was part if the 15th AF, 368th BG, 775 BS.

    Here is a photo of the crew
    Front: Sgt. D.O. Pratt; Lt. Stanley N. Dwyer, Pilot; Lt. Manley H. Dale, Co-Pilot; Sgt. Gail Popplewell. Rear: Sgts. G.P. Mitchell, J.J. Boros, D. Oldfather, J.J. Papazian.
     

    Attached Files:

    • Like Like x 1
  4. Kurtl

    Kurtl Member

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2006
    Messages:
    114
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Thank you very much for your help!

    The picture is very interesting. I wonder where the 2 missing crew members are. Do you know the name of them?
    You are saying that Stanley Dwyer was flying 42-31685 on a mission from Celone (Foggia) in Italy over Wiener Neustadt on May 19, 1944. I have a book about "Bombs on Wiener Neustadt" there is a picture of Stanley Dwyer in front of a B17G-Nosesection. There is a name on the nose "The Irish Orphans". I am confused now. From where do you have your information?

    At the crashplace there is an american special force team searching for the two missing crewmembers. 5 jumped out and survived, 3 were found dead next to the wreckage, and 2 are still missing. The american team found a lot of bomb parts and they told me that the survivors of this B17 told that they still had some bombs on board when they crashed. An anti aircraft gun or fighter attack had damaged the bom release system.

    nice regard, Kurt
     
  5. syscom3

    syscom3 Pacific Historian

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2005
    Messages:
    12,631
    Likes Received:
    309
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Orange County, CA
    I wonder if Jules participated in that mission.
     
  6. evangilder

    evangilder "Shooter"
    Staff Member Administrator

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2004
    Messages:
    19,419
    Likes Received:
    137
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Occupation:
    Network Engineer/Photographer
    Location:
    Moorpark, CA
    Home Page:
    It is quite possible that Dwyer flew other airplanes as well. By that time, in the bomb groups, they took what airplanes were available. I know a veteran from Rougham field that flew B-17s and he stated they did not have an "assigned" aircraft, but would take what was available. Only earlier in the war were crews and aircraft normally the same.

    The info I have on 42-31685 being called Pete's Playhouse is from the book of the 775th BS called "Allyn's Irish Orphans". I do not have a copy of it, I had to call someone else for it. It is very possible that another aircraft called The Irish Orphans was part of that squadron or group.

    MACR (Missing Aircrew Report) 4723 lists 42-31685 missing on May 10, 1944, not the 19th. It does not list the pilot, but does show 463rd BG, 775th BS. This conflicts with my earlier statement that it was part of the 368th BG, sorry that was incorrect. According to the 368th BG site, there were 34 aircraft sent up for the mission on Wiener-Neustadt, Austria on May 10, 1944. 7 of the aircraft were lost on that raid.

    There was a raid by the group on May 19 against Portomaggiore, Italy, with 26 aircraft up and none lost.
     
  7. jhor9

    jhor9 Member

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2006
    Messages:
    83
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    6
    Occupation:
    retired
    Location:
    Pompano Beach, Florida
    Syscom,
    To answer your question re: Weiner Neustadt. I flew to WN twice - Nov 1, 1943 and sometime a bit later.At the time it was about the toughest target (before Ploesti) I recall the 11/43 flight from Tunis was 1000/900. We landed in Gela, Sicily. The following AM we received enough fuel to return to our base in N.Africa. I think that we lost 12 planes in the area, we attacked by over 80 of Goering's best
     
  8. syscom3

    syscom3 Pacific Historian

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2005
    Messages:
    12,631
    Likes Received:
    309
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Orange County, CA
    Thanks Jules.

    Were the WN missions the flights you were co-pilot in?
     
  9. Kurtl

    Kurtl Member

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2006
    Messages:
    114
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Is it possible to read the MACR 4723 somewhere on the internet?
    I would like to know the names of the crew of Stanley Dwyer of Pete's Playhouse (42-31685) at May 10, 1944. Can anyone help?

    Kurt
     
  10. evangilder

    evangilder "Shooter"
    Staff Member Administrator

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2004
    Messages:
    19,419
    Likes Received:
    137
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Occupation:
    Network Engineer/Photographer
    Location:
    Moorpark, CA
    Home Page:
    I don;t think there is a place on the net for it.
    Missing Air Crew Reports (MACR) - if your research involves the loss of an aircraft in a combat situation and not in Allied territory, the MACR will be invaluable. This document was generated shortly after the loss of the aircraft (usually within a day or so) and lists the crew roster, aircraft, and basic details of the loss including eye witness statements if they were available.

    These records are maintained by the National Archives and Records Administration II in College Park, Maryland. Over time, the MACR report became a file, containing a collection of documents relating to the aircraft loss. You should request the entire file -

    MACR's, KU-Reports, Tactical Mission Summaries, replies may take two to four months.

    NOTE: most 15th AF records are stored at AFHRA, Maxwell AFB (see #4) instead of the National Archives. Records pertaining to the military in W.W.II are maintained at National Archives at College Park, MD (Archives II).

    AFHRA/RSA
    600 Chennault Circle
    Maxwell AFB, Alabama 36112-6424

    Send a request via mail with the MACR number and as much information as you have. You may want to include that you are researching this for a local museum or history center as they will be more helpful.
     
  11. Erich

    Erich the old Sage
    Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    May 20, 2004
    Messages:
    13,090
    Likes Received:
    15
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Location:
    Platonic Sphere
    when in doubt check this excellent resource as Jules and I know it very well

    armyairforces.com

    join the fourms and post your questions and most likely you will have an answer plus other pics. Eric has done a good job in answering your questions but maybe you can pick up some additional information. As to fighter attacks in May of 44 Bf 109G-6 equipped Hungarian units were quite active as well as German JG 27 and the twin engine Zerstörer units ZG 1, ZG 26 and 76
     
  12. FLYBOYJ

    FLYBOYJ "THE GREAT GAZOO"
    Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2005
    Messages:
    23,200
    Likes Received:
    786
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Aircraft Maintenance Manager/ Flight Instructor
    Location:
    Colorado, USA
    The bottom item looks like a high tension lead stll connected to the sparkplug...
     
  13. JCMRANGER

    JCMRANGER New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2006
    Messages:
    4
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    1
    Occupation:
    Aircraft recovery and restoration
    Location:
    Silverdale, PA
    Home Page:
    MACR 4723 lists my uncle Lt. Gerald Gowen as the Pilot. His aircraft was shot down by flack the same mission as Lt Dwyer's plane. Allyn's Irish Orphans History has the planes and pilots switched. Two crew members survived from each plane. The last member of my uncles crew was buried in Arlington in April of 05. I talked with the two surviving members of Lt Dwyers plane last September and was told that Dwyers plane was 685 and my uncles was 804. As stated earlier and this is reinforced by post mission reports I have. These two pilots and crews flew both these planes at various times and the were in the rear left formation next to each other when the were shot down by flack. I have been confused over the years by the various reports from different websites and the Army Air Corp MACR but I must go with the living crew members when they tell me they were in plane 685. Both planes crashed near each other near the town of Neunkirchen (nine churches) I have had much pleasure in talking with the familys of my uncles crew and have had the pleasure of sending one man the only picture he has ever seen of his bother and a daughter a picture of her dad at his station in the plane. Thank you to all who sacrificed everything for us and to those who keep their memory alive. Joe Meyers
     
  14. FLYBOYJ

    FLYBOYJ "THE GREAT GAZOO"
    Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2005
    Messages:
    23,200
    Likes Received:
    786
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Aircraft Maintenance Manager/ Flight Instructor
    Location:
    Colorado, USA
    Great info, thanks! :salute:
     
  15. syscom3

    syscom3 Pacific Historian

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2005
    Messages:
    12,631
    Likes Received:
    309
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Orange County, CA
     
  16. A&Pstudent

    A&Pstudent New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2010
    Messages:
    1
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    1
    I must say that your post seriousness peaked my interest. I am currently an airframe and powerplant tech student and a major war bird aficionado. The first picture appears to be a main landing gear master brake resevoir/cylinder, and the second picture looks like some sort of hydraulic actuator. As for the last picture I agree that is a spark plug and it's high tension cable. Thank you so much for your post.
     
  17. gianpol

    gianpol New Member

    Joined:
    May 20, 2010
    Messages:
    10
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    1
    Occupation:
    retired
    Location:
    rome
  18. cptsmith

    cptsmith Member

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2010
    Messages:
    34
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    6
    Location:
    FL, USA
    the second picture is part of the ring the cowl flaps attach to. The steel part holds the ring sections together, the part with the grease nipple is a casting the flaps are attached to.
     
  19. alana

    alana New Member

    Joined:
    May 26, 2014
    Messages:
    1
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    1
    Hi all, I was amazed to find this picture during my online search for information on my uncle who was J. J. Boros. Does anyone know where this picture came from or have any additional information on the crew or John Boros?

    Thanks!
     
Loading...

Share This Page