Picture of the day. (1 Viewer)
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GrauGeist
Generalfeldmarschall zur Luftschiff Abteilung
Tiger 313 destroyed in the Normany area by Allied heavy bombers during Operation "Goodwood" in July 1944.
Smokey Stover
Banned
Just so that you know, I never said "you're an idiot for falling for such obvious fakes", I simply said the photo itself was BS, which it was.
I also went on to show an actual IL-2 photo for comparison with no attached insults or derision. Also this is a forum where many folks will comment on a subject at one point or another, so some comments may be later than others in the discussion.
As for "assumptions", now that you've brought it up...one would "assume" that since you're "knowledgable about the principles of flight", you shouldn't have fallen for that game screen, right?
Anyway...that's all I have to say about this, as the Mods have asked that this be dropped, and so it shall.
A badly pixelated picture has no relevance on flight characteristics. Would you know and feel how a ferrari handles just by looking at a poster? But, no, actually it was for the simple reason i dont play video games and have never used photoshop. So to an untrained eye, and while i deduced there were anomalies i reasoned it was 50/50 Plus Russian aircraft are not my speciality hence the citation. But i like the way you slipped one final dig at me in there and then suggested the whole subject to be dropped. It gives me a good insight into your mentality. But anyway, as for the other comments, its not whats said that bothers me, its just the repetition. If one or two people had corrected a comment, and i then came across it. Me personally, i would feel rehashing the same statement to be a little bit like overkill. But then again it is a social forum. And everyone enjoys the chance to correct others rightly or wrongly. Behavioral science is a side study of mine. No offence intended and no offence taken. Life is too short to hold grudges so i'll say no more on the subject.
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What I noticed was the item sticking up on the trailing edge of the right wing (Like a spoiler.) and the rudder is neutral. No Yaw? (Not to mention the general appearance.)
Canadian 3rd Division M4s and Churchill Crocodile knocked out during assault on Boulogne.
michaelmaltby
Colonel
Paris ... liberation
Smokey Stover
Banned
As i said before im not too hot on the IL-2, but yes i see you're point. If that's part of the aileron or trim, being stuck in the raised position like that would cause the aircraft to bank/roll hard over unless corrections were made or even possible. You are surmising (quite rightly) that because the aircraft is in level flight it's an obvious fake. Aside from the other red flags. If the pic were real, the pic could have been taken at such a time that it just happened to capture the aircraft in level flight if only for a second. Which is why i like to stay objective, and not jump to the first conclusion. But that's just an example, the photo is an obvious fake. My comments were nothing personal, i don't make judgements about people i dont know. And maybe i am a little bit too prickly to criticism. Im an old fashioned hands on grease monkey, and when it comes to aircraft even more so. Online internet technology is most definitely not my forte. Hence my lack of knowledge of what is possible with tools like photoshop.
Smokey Stover
Banned
German paratroopers descending on Holland, 1940. Notice the folding bicycles. And the absence of any kind of helmut or head protection...
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Smokey Stover
Banned
Not trying to be argumentative, but many luftwaffe pilots (especially new pilots) often emptied their whole ammunition drums on IL2's and still were not able to bring them down. IL2's were heavily metal plated, especially around the cockpit and engine. There was a method German pilots had to use to make sure of a kill. I have some interview footage of Gunther Rall explaining this issue somewhere.... I think a large number of IL2 losses came from ground fire, pilot error and mechanical problems. But not having checked the numbers im just giving my opinion not stating a fact.
michaelmaltby
Colonel
... only the pilot and engine were enclosed in a titanium tub ... the rear gunner was SOL ... and the weak spot was the oil cooler which was not protected
As memo serves it wasn't titanium there but just the AB-1 or AB-2 armored steel plates , 4,5-12/13 mm thick.. I'm afraid it's not true the oil cooler was unprotected. The oil cooler was protected The protection gave the same "armour bathtub" of the engine compartment and cockpit.
michaelmaltby
Colonel
I stand corrected ... my source for oil cooler vulnerability is "Red Star Against The Swastika" by IL 2 veteran Vasily B Emelianenko.
I see. Here is a diagram showing the location of the oil cooler. The " маслoрадиатор" = oil cooler.
And here is the armour diagram with the thickenss of the steel plates used in millimeters. As you may notice the oil cooler plates at the bottom and sides were of the 6 mm ( other source says 8 mm). So the one was protected from the rear, front and also from the top by the armoured fuselage A different matter is if the 6-8 mm for the bottom plate was enough for protecting against the AA fire. But the cockpit sides were of the same in the thickness armour plates.Additionally please notice that there was the rear armour bulkhead behind the rear gunner's station what was also a kind of protection of the gunner.
And here is the armour diagram with the thickenss of the steel plates used in millimeters. As you may notice the oil cooler plates at the bottom and sides were of the 6 mm ( other source says 8 mm). So the one was protected from the rear, front and also from the top by the armoured fuselage A different matter is if the 6-8 mm for the bottom plate was enough for protecting against the AA fire. But the cockpit sides were of the same in the thickness armour plates.Additionally please notice that there was the rear armour bulkhead behind the rear gunner's station what was also a kind of protection of the gunner.
michaelmaltby
Colonel
Painting representing German paratroopers ''Fallschirmjäger'' enter in Holland during the West Front offensive by the German Army in May 1940. During the first 9 months of the war, Hitler decided not to attack on the Western Front in order to mobilize his troops for the conquest of Poland and the Baltic States. But, once his conquest of the East ended, the attack of France began, Hitler directed his forces through the forest of the Ardennes deemed impassable by the Allies in order to circumvent the line Maginot and encircling the advanced French army in Belgium. The conquest of Holland was made by the German paratroopers, the "Fallschirmjäger", proof of the modernity of the German army. Picture by Fortunio Matania. -
Fortunino Matania - Wikipedia
Fortunino Matania - Wikipedia
When did the Germans go to double riders?
michaelmaltby
Colonel
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