Question about FM-1 Wildcat interior colors

[Hoggardhigh]

Hi all,

According to some sites/forums I've visited, most if not all FM-1 Wildcats (Eastern/GM-built version of F4F-4) had the same interior colors as their Grumman-made counterparts - Bronze Green for the cockpit area, Grumman grey for other areas. However, others say that most or all FM-1s had Interior Green/Zinc Chromate for the cockpit area, and possibly other areas.

Anyone have a possible explanation as to which is correct?

Thanks

 

[fubar57]

D Dana Bell

 

[Hoggardhigh]

D Dana Bell

What are you saying there?

 

[fubar57]

Wait for it.....................

 

[Wurger]

Yep.. Dana Bell s around quite often so he is the man you should wait for the answer..

However , as memo serves the Bronze Green was used for early assembled planes rather. The colour was replaced with the Dull Dark Green quite quickly

 

[Dana Bell]

You rang?

Sorry to be late to the show - just got back from Archives...

So, early FM-1s used Bronze Green. Factory plans show that they switched to Dull Dark Green somewhere during production, but no serial number reference is provided. Use of Dull Dark Green continued in FM-2s until 16151, after which Interior Green was introduced. Remember that during the switchover periods, subassemblies (seats in particular) could continue to use earlier colors.

The oft-quoted "Grumman Gray" is really a modelers' convention - it was nothing more than non-specular Light Gray camouflage lacquer that was being used up as an interior finish coat.

Hope this helps...



Dana
I aim to please, but sometmies I hit London.

 

[Hoggardhigh]

BTW...I'm also curious as to the interior colors used in the 100 F4F-3's (BuNo's 12230 to 12329) built during early 1943 and used as fighter trainers - were their interiors in Bronze Green or Dull Dark Green?

If anyone has any info on that as well, that would be appreciated ☺

 

[Dana Bell]

Hi Hoggardhigh,

I don't know with any certainty, but those last F4F-3s were built much earlier than '43, so I'd guess they were Bronze Green. They were held for some time pending conversion to seaplanes, but were delivered as trainers when the F4F-3S program was put out of its misery.

Cheers,



Dana

 

[Hoggardhigh]

Hi Hoggardhigh,

I don't know with any certainty, but those last F4F-3s were built much earlier than '43, so I'd guess they were Bronze Green. They were held for some time pending conversion to seaplanes, but were delivered as trainers when the F4F-3S program was put out of its misery.

Cheers,



Dana

How do you know they were built before 1943? Ray Wagner's site americancombatplanes.com says the following (emphasis added by me):

"Another 100 F4F-7s had been ordered, but were completed as fixed-wing F4F-3s from January to May 1943, the last of 1,978 Wildcats built by Grumman."

 

[fubar57]

 

[Hoggardhigh]

View attachment 521318

What are you saying there?

 

[Wurger]

The another site say that
"100 F4F-7s were ordered. However, the order was not completed. A total of 21 F4F-7s were built, before in 1943 it was altered to an order for 100 F4F-3S float planes, before the aircraft were completed as standard F4F-3s."

Grumman F4F-7 Wildcat

 

[Hoggardhigh]

The another site say that
"100 F4F-7s were ordered. However, the order was not completed. A total of 21 F4F-7s were built, before in 1943 it was altered to an order for 100 F4F-3S float planes, before the aircraft were completed as standard F4F-3s."

Grumman F4F-7 Wildcat

Is that to say that those 100 F4F-3's were indeed built during 1943?

 

[Wurger]

Yes and no I would say. Actually these F4F-3S were rebuilt F4F-7s. It was going to make 100 planes of the F4F-3S series using the F4F-7 planes of the cancelled series. These already started planes that weren't finished yet , were just updated to the F4F-3 variant and sent to the training units. But how many of them I couldn't find.

 

[Dana Bell]

Hi Hoggardhigh,

First, before I give you the impression that I'm arguing with Ray Wagner, I want to note that Ray's an amazing researcher and a better (and more prolific) writer than I am. The difference (in this case) is that I spent six months digging through archival records that were unavailable when Ray last researched the Wildcat. If he was part of this conversation, I'm pretty sure he'd agree with the following.

There's a world of difference between building a plane, completing the plane, and accepting the plane. Perfectly good aircraft can sit for months awaiting acceptance and delivery, while newer production airframes move on ahead of them. (In one case, over a hundred F4Us were stuck at the Vought factory when heavy snows closed the runways. As the snows cleared, inspectors worked their way through the aircraft in front – the newer production – before accepting the older aircraft at the rear of the ramp.)

The Navy ordered 121 F4F-7s on contract 75736. Only 21 were built as ordered – unarmed camera planes with 685 gallon-capacity fuel tanks. The rest were to be diverted to the F4F-3S project. They were completed as landplanes and delivered to the Pacific Fleet Pool at San Diego to be converted to float plane configuration, but they were NOT accepted at that time. (The Navy would have had to pay Grumman once the planes were accepted, and since the aircraft were not yet equipped with floats, they were not yet added to the inventory.) A 6 November 1942 memo notes that the aircraft should be accepted as straight-up F4F-3s. Contract 75736 was closed, and the 100 -3s were moved to the end of contract 99340, assigned new serial numbers, accepted and delivered – since it took more than two months to complete all paperwork, install final government furnished equipment, and perform inspections and flight tests, these aircraft weren't accepted until 1943. They were the last F4F-3s delivered, but they were all built before F4F-4 production began, and they all should have had Bronze Green cockpits.

I've only seen 2 or 3 confirmed photos of the last batch of F4F-3s. The two that are properly identified were shot at Melbourne, Florida. ME-F-15 (BuNo 12328) was photographed on 3 June 1943, and ME-F-38 (12237) was photographed on 10 September 1943. The third photo depicted ME-F-4, but was miscaptioned as BuNo 12237 - just the wrong information stuck to the back of the print, but this could have been an earlier-production F4F-3. If you're serious about building one of these aircraft, send me a PM and I'll DropBox you the scans.

Cheers,


Dana