Question about Gun Ranges

Discussion in 'OFF-Topic / Misc.' started by Chief2387, Jan 13, 2016.

  1. Chief2387

    Chief2387 Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2015
    Messages:
    33
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    6
    Occupation:
    Student
    Location:
    Reinholds, PA
    #1 Chief2387, Jan 13, 2016
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2016
    I'm a student at Thaddeus Stevens College of Technology as an Architect.
    For my final Project we need to design a building from a list of concept buildings.
    I choose a Gun/Archery Range.

    My Concept is a Shooting Sports location where one can learn about either sport and acquire training in one or both fields.
    also the location will be built with target competition in mind.
    I'm still debating between indoor and outdoor ranges in my design, though I am leaning towards an indoor range..

    I've acquired quite a bit of information from the Department Of Defense and the Department of Energy.

    However, I was wondering if anyone on the sight has experience with working on a gun range or archery range.
    Military, Civilian, Trainer, etc.

    I do plan on visiting Gun some local ranges for walk-throughs, so as to get a visual idea of where I'm going.

    Right now it's still in the concept phase. I'm acquiring as much information as much information as I can.
    I don't even have an idea on size.
    It will be two story.

    First floor be primarily retail with an information desk for those new to the location.
    Second Floor will be leaning towards education with class rooms.
    The left side of the building will be for archery.
    the right side for Firearms.
    Any form of bow or crossbow will be compatible with the sight.
    Compatible firearms will include for indoor pistols, shotgun(Slug rounds), PDW's.
    There will be a outside range for rifles.

    This is subject to change.

    That's my idea. Any idea's are welcome.
    Nothing Political though. This is a fictional building which will most likely never be built anyway.
    Thank you for your input in advance.
     
  2. Chief2387

    Chief2387 Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2015
    Messages:
    33
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    6
    Occupation:
    Student
    Location:
    Reinholds, PA
    Classroom instruction will include
    Firearms:
    FirstShots courses, Revolver training,pistol Training, Shotgun training, Personal Defense Weapon training, Rifle training.
    Introduction to handloading.

    Archery: Beginner instruction, Intermediate instruction, Stringing and Fleching.
     
  3. Chief2387

    Chief2387 Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2015
    Messages:
    33
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    6
    Occupation:
    Student
    Location:
    Reinholds, PA
  4. DerAdlerIstGelandet

    DerAdlerIstGelandet Der Crew Chief
    Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2004
    Messages:
    41,767
    Likes Received:
    684
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    A&P - Aircraft Technician
    Location:
    USA/Germany
    I have experience running military gun ranges. Also a member of a private range where I live.

    I can try and help with any questions you might have.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  5. GrauGeist

    GrauGeist Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2008
    Messages:
    15,188
    Likes Received:
    2,029
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Public Safety Automotive Technician
    Location:
    Redding, California
    Home Page:
    One thing to consider, with an indoor range, is a limitation on weapon types, as an indoor range would not be practical for most rifles.

    Typically, an indoor range is used for handguns although several that I know of, offer beginner's instruction for rifles using .22 types (for example: Ruger 10/22).

    Also, with an indoor range, you need to have an adequate air system that provides fresh air while removing the discharge gasses.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  6. Torch

    Torch Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2006
    Messages:
    2,285
    Likes Received:
    217
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Colorado
    We have a couple of indoor 100 yard ranges near me. The biggest no no is using steel core/cased ammo. What I look for is a well lit,well ventilated range with clearly marked ranges. You might want to check with he EPA on what the regulations are also.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  7. Chief2387

    Chief2387 Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2015
    Messages:
    33
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    6
    Occupation:
    Student
    Location:
    Reinholds, PA
    Thank Guys for your input guys. I really appreciate it.

    I hadn't thought about Ventilation. I'll Keep that in mind.

    Also there is range near me that offers class for pistol, revolver, shotgun(Slud load), and Rifle.
    The rifle is likely 22lr as well. It is a 100 yd indoor range, but I realize that's nothing for a basic rifle.

    The one problem I noted about the range by me was there wasn't anything I remember that can help you gauge the target distance.
    Should I have the floor painted every 25 yd with tick marks for every 5 yd? Or would a dedicated marker be better for gauging distance?
     
  8. Chief2387

    Chief2387 Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2015
    Messages:
    33
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    6
    Occupation:
    Student
    Location:
    Reinholds, PA
    As far as Classes. How would you go about teaching proper Handloading ammunition? What would be the minimum tools set for handloading? What tools would you prefer?
     
  9. Shortround6

    Shortround6 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2009
    Messages:
    9,762
    Likes Received:
    794
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    retired Firefighter
    Location:
    Central Florida Highlands
    Range estimation for rifles and pistols isn't really a big deal, Archery would be another matter. For a .22 standard velocity round and rifle with the sights mounted 1.5in above the bore the bullet will pass through the line of sight at 50 ft from the muzzle and then again at 50 yds (or very close to it) and then fall around 6 to 7in by the time it gets to 100yds. Higher velocity rounds will shoot flatter, some pistol rounds will be a little worse.
    Most competitions will be a fixed distances, like 50 ft, 25 yds, 50yds, 100yrds. providing stops on the target carrier system would be helpful but are such systems part of your project?
    Ventilation has become much more stringent in requirements in the last 10-15 years, more to get rid of lead particles in the air than the powder fumes. OSHA or other government health/safety agencies may be able to provide more data on either ventilation or filter/scrubber systems. Keeping an indoor range heated in northern winters can be a real bit** if you are depending on "simple" ventilation to do the job. Some refitted ranges I know of alternate running the heat and shooting with turning off the heat and 'venting'every so many minutes.

    Outdoor ranges for competition with .22 rifles and pistols (or most center fire pistols) can be done at 25 yd/meters, 50 yds, 50 meters and 100 yds. (covers most Olympic style shooting.) Adequate back stops or safety areas are needed.

    I have worked at the largest commercial range on the East Coast for a number of years. Also competed in a number of indoor events at various locations (several collage ranges in addition to local gun clubs). Attended the US national matches 6 times and the Canadian National matches twice and shot on Ranges in Adelaide Australia, Brisbane Australia and Auckland New Zealand that were designed and built for Commonwealth games or other international competitions.

    Outdoor range "buildings" (covered firing line) should take into account climate conditions. Hot climate ranges should have a large roof that covers not only the firing line but an area behind the firing line for a "ready" area or for spectators ( or students who are not firing at the moment and observing). A solid wall behind the ready area just in case. Perhaps a gap between wall and roof to promote ventilation for comfort. Outdoor ranges should ideally face north in the northern Hemisphere and south in the Southern so as to have the maximum shooting time without the sun being behind the targets or shinning in shooters eyes. Amount of roof overhang, Latitude and angle from north can be juggled.

    Hope some of this helps.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  10. Shortround6

    Shortround6 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2009
    Messages:
    9,762
    Likes Received:
    794
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    retired Firefighter
    Location:
    Central Florida Highlands
    You can go from simple hand tools (like tong tools) to progressive reloading tools. Although the last shouldn't really be in a beginner's course.

    A simple bench press (one station) should be a good start. It will cover the basic principles and provide a good view for several students which hand tools might not. A large scale would be helpful for weighing powder charges (more for viewing than accuracy) and setting the powder measure (or verifying the cavity of a fixed measure is throwing the right amount of powder, powder lots vary sometimes).
    After that it gets rather optional. Quantity (production) vs quality (long rang accuracy or bench rest). Highly accurate ammunition can be produced using fairly simple tools, it just takes time per round.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  11. at6

    at6 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2011
    Messages:
    1,295
    Likes Received:
    158
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    retired
    Location:
    Fresno, California
    As far as target distance, why not use laser technology with a digital display to give an accurate distance reading to the shooter?
     
  12. Shortround6

    Shortround6 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2009
    Messages:
    9,762
    Likes Received:
    794
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    retired Firefighter
    Location:
    Central Florida Highlands
    For most "range" shooting is isn't needed. The difference of a few feet out of 50ft or more is of little practical difference. ( In one league I shot in one range out of 7 was 47 feet instead of 50ft. It made no practical difference to scores or sight settings, only the guys with 25-30 power telescopes had to change focus a bit. Since that range was heated by a wood stove we had other things to contend with than the difference in distance :)

    When we shot outside and changed from 50 yds to 100yds with .22s we came up 27 clicks (in 1/4 min sights/scopes) and fired at the sighting bull. Air temp, wind and lighting (overcast/sunny, etc) making as much or more difference than a few feet difference in actual range.

    At ranges under 100yds there isn't enough change in trajectory to worry about getting rounds on the paper unless you are running some sort of special contest with no sighters allowed and unknown distances and short trajectory guns. (an Ar-15 doesn't change more than a couple of inches over the first 100yds.)

    Out door ranges over 100yds ( ie , 200 yds and greater) have a lot more problems with location/layout and danger spaces than with actual building design.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  13. Chief2387

    Chief2387 Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2015
    Messages:
    33
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    6
    Occupation:
    Student
    Location:
    Reinholds, PA
    Shortround your awesome! Thank you.
    I've only shot a gun once though it was just 2 weeks ago.

    Having the distances though really is more for convenience if it's there than for any practical purposes.

    What about for .22lr pistols or revolvers? Will there drop rate be much different in an indoor range?

    My project isn't calling for it to have distances for competition shooting. No. But, it's something I'd like to add.
    My idea is for a one location dedicated to both shooting and archery. I also want my idea to serve beginners, intermediate and advanced students.

    The idea is,"The more a person practices and develops their skill, the more they have respect for that skill."
     
  14. mikewint

    mikewint Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2010
    Messages:
    5,682
    Likes Received:
    430
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Retired and living on the dole
    Location:
    Lakeview, AR
    Does this help
     

    Attached Files:

    • Like Like x 1
  15. Chief2387

    Chief2387 Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2015
    Messages:
    33
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    6
    Occupation:
    Student
    Location:
    Reinholds, PA
    Much. Thanks Mike.
     
  16. mikewint

    mikewint Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2010
    Messages:
    5,682
    Likes Received:
    430
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Retired and living on the dole
    Location:
    Lakeview, AR
    Glad to help. There are a number of ballistic computers on line wherein you can look up just apout any commercial round and find its ballistic data
     
    • Like Like x 1
  17. bobbysocks

    bobbysocks Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2010
    Messages:
    3,809
    Likes Received:
    181
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    #17 bobbysocks, Jan 18, 2016
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2016
    most indoor ranges I have been in have had targets at 3 stations. 10, 25 and 50 feet. you may want to check with the local law enforcement agencies to see what the distances are they use to qualify. as mentioned before indoor ranges use only lead non-jacketed ammo such as wad cutters and 22 rounds. the far end of the range is plate steel angled down into a sand pit so when rounds impact the plate they flatten and are directed into the sand with no chance of ricocheting. you will need ( as mentioned above ) excellent ventilation as fumes and smoke build up and can cause a health hazard...not only from the powder but airborne lead particles. also you should have the floor as non-porous as possible. you can use concrete but a good non-flammable sealer would be required. when a round is fired not all the powder ignites. that unburnt powder is deposited onto the floor. if there are pockmarks or bubbles where it can collect... its not a good thing. good range hygiene is important. the walls and ceiling should be engineered as to absorb rounds without letting them pass. accidental discharges are not common but do happen. a lot of times ranges will be teaching newer and not so gun savvy shooters who have more of a chance to have a major OOOPS! you will need to mitigate any potential disaster in your planning and building. I would also have several well placed "panic buttons" that link to an office or an emergency agency like Life Alert. "I have shot myself and cant get up...or I have a guy with a gunshot wound and need to hold compression and not mess with a cell phone at the moment." I would also have an extinguisher system. as for gingerbread items: individual shooting stations with electric controlled targets retrievals...moving and/or pop up target systems are all awesome.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  18. Chief2387

    Chief2387 Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2015
    Messages:
    33
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    6
    Occupation:
    Student
    Location:
    Reinholds, PA
    Thanks Bobby.

    I'm actually leaning on using a T.C.T. system for the bullet stop. It's expensive, but would require less cleaning.

    I like the idea of a panic button.

    I just finished doing a Field Survey of an indoor Archery Range. They had a 3-D Bow Hunt room that looked pretty neat.
    It was 70' x 8' air conditioned with a projector screen at the target area. I didn't see it work, but it looked cool.

    I think I may be able to incorporate it with my design. I won't stress it though, but I'll mark it for the overall plan.
     
  19. Chief2387

    Chief2387 Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2015
    Messages:
    33
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    6
    Occupation:
    Student
    Location:
    Reinholds, PA
    Update: Here the Programming Matrix for the Range.

    I'll upload the plans periodically.

    My one gripe is that, due to project limitations imposed by my professor, I don't have as much first floor space do to zoning.
    Realistically, I would've had everything on the first floor except Offices being 2nd Floor.

    It's starting to come together. Slowly.
     

    Attached Files:

Loading...

Share This Page