Question about P-51B 42-106462

[Hoggardhigh]

According to cebudanderson.com (specifically this page), Capt. John England's P-51B 42-106462 was delivered to the USAAF during January 1944...and to the 362nd FS/357th FG over a month later in Olive Drab finish.

And yet, another page from the same site says that all P-51Bs and Cs leaving the factories after 1 December 1943 would have been in natural metal finish.

Does anyone know if Capt. England's a/c was camouflaged at the factory, or sometime after delivery (e.g. after arrival in the ETO)?

 

[cvairwerks]

Two different delivery processes for aircraft to military customers. DD-250 is the ownership delivery of the aircraft. Once the DD-250 is signed, the military actually has legal ownership of the aircraft. At this point, the aircraft is on the books as military owned and delivered. The second delivery is actually moving the aircraft from the factory to the receiving station, and the military actually taking physical custody of the aircraft. There is a time lag between DD-250 and physical delivery, that can be as short as a couple of weeks and as long as several months, depending on a large number of factors.

In the case of this particular aircraft, I would suspect that it was DD-250'd prior to 1 Dec42 and not ferried out until after 1 Jan43. The natural finish directive probably also had a serial number break in, so that anything on the line already painted, would continue and not be sent for stripping prior to delivery.

Working for a manufacturer, I've seen aircraft DD-250'd and not leave the production facility for months or even years. What happens with these aircraft is that they are "bailed" back to the manufacturer for either testing purposes, or modification development. The military retains ownership, but in effect loans the aircraft back to the manufacturer for the designated purpose and for a specific period of time.

In one case with us, we had a brand new aircraft bailed back to us and it spend it's entire operational life as a test aircraft and as a chase bird. By the time we finished with it, it was not suitable for use as a regular operation aircraft and ended up as a museum piece. When we shipped it out, it had virtually every modification within the production program that cad been produced for the previous 25+ years.

 

[Hoggardhigh]

I suspect that Mustang 42-106462 was indeed sent from the factory unpainted, but repainted in OD finish upon arrival in the ETO, in anticipation for a possible move to the Continent.

Does anyone believe this may have been true?

 

[drgondog]

I suspect that Mustang 42-106462 was indeed sent from the factory unpainted, but repainted in OD finish upon arrival in the ETO, in anticipation for a possible move to the Continent.

Does anyone believe this may have been true?

42-106462 indeed left in NMF. The ordr to suspend Camo came from AAF-MC December 24th, NAA implemented on or slightly after Jan 1 for those ships not in paint shop. As near as I can tell P-51B-10 43-7152 was about the OD/NMF break.

The 357 traditionally applied British Green to the NMf until late summer. AFAIK, there was little to zero US OD pain shipped to UK - too ow value.

If you see any Camo on B-10 and subs to ~ 43-7152 it was field applied.

 

[Hoggardhigh]

42-106462 indeed left in NMF. The ordr to suspend Camo came from AAF-MC December 24th, NAA implemented on or slightly after Jan 1 for those ships not in paint shop. As near as I can tell P-51B-10 43-7152 was about the OD/NMF break.

The 357 traditionally applied British Green to the NMf until late summer. AFAIK, there was little to zero US OD pain shipped to UK - too ow value.

If you see any Camo on B-10 and subs to ~ 43-7152 it was field applied.

Page 124 of William N. Hess's book 354th Fighter Group states that the camouflage paint was discontinued from Mustang production with P-51B-7 43-7083.

Anyone have anything to back up this assertion?

 

[fubar57]

 

[Hoggardhigh]

drgondog claims that camouflage paint wasn't abandoned during P-51B production until aircraft s/n 43-7152, yet there is the following photo of the (apparently factory-fresh) P-51B-10-NA 43-7116 in NMF finish:

Anybody have an explanation for this?

 

[pbehn]

drgondog claims that camouflage paint wasn't abandoned during P-51B production until aircraft s/n 43-7152, yet there is the following photo of the (apparently factory-fresh) P-51B-10-NA 43-7116 in NMF finish:
View attachment 598760

Anybody have an explanation for this?

I don't, but I will never sleep until I see an answer. The P-51B was produced in two factories and for two end users wasn't it?

 

[fubar57]

He said "As near as I can tell P-51B-10 43-7152 was about the OD/NMF break" Your aircraft is 36 off. That seems near to me

 

[pbehn]

He said "As near as I can tell P-51B-10 43-7152 was about the OD/NMF break" Your aircraft is 36 off. That seems near to me

Thank the gods, I can sleep again.

 

[Hoggardhigh]

He said "As near as I can tell P-51B-10 43-7152 was about the OD/NMF break" Your aircraft is 36 off. That seems near to me

What are you saying there?

 

[fubar57]

I give up

 

[pbehn]

I give up

Can I sleep or not?

 

[fubar57]

He's all yours

 

[Donivanp]

Many of the early D-5's at the 357th were in British Green and Mid Sea Grey, that is a field applied camo but Bud Andersens B and early D were indeed green over grey as well as Yeagers and most all others. The -10's and after wore a NMF in combat.

 

[drgondog]

drgondog claims that camouflage paint wasn't abandoned during P-51B production until aircraft s/n 43-7152, yet there is the following photo of the (apparently factory-fresh) P-51B-10-NA 43-7116 in NMF finish:
View attachment 598760

Anybody have an explanation for this?

I said IIRC 43-7152 was near the break. Mustangs did not come off the line in serial sequence. or example, 7116 was accepted 1-5-44. 7133 was accepted 12-29-43, 7150 was delivered 12-30, every other B-10 was accepted (by casual exam) after 1-3-1944.

You are fairly confrontational, sport. Don't expect any shared knowledge after this post. Life is too short at my age to deal with pests.

 

[pbehn]

When did they start making the ones with D-Day stripes?

 

[GrauGeist]

Rather amusing to watch junior argue with Bill over P-51 stats.

That's like arguing with Michelangelo over who painted the Sistine Chapel, FFS...

 

[Crimea_River]

I thought the Sistine Chapel was NPF (Natural Plaster Finish) but I guess it was before the exact day they decided to stop painting chapels.

 

[Airframes]

And Vatican Directive 234B messed things up a bit. From August 12th, the borders of the fresco were directed to be in Insignia Yellow, which was commenced, but the Directive was rescinded by the amendment, in Vatican Directive 234B/2, dated September 10th, and the yellow border had to be removed ..............