Russians didn't need Allied help for victory

Discussion in 'WW2 General' started by GrauGeist, Mar 15, 2014.

  1. GrauGeist

    GrauGeist Well-Known Member

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    An interesting survey by the news agency RT (Russian Times) shows that a majority of Russians feel that Russia was able to defeat Germany without Allied help.

    It would be interesting to see the results of the survey by age group.

    USSR didn?t need Allies to win WWII ? survey ? RT USA
     
  2. razor1uk

    razor1uk Well-Known Member

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    Well the declining statistics could be representative of the old (and hence possibly more knowledgeable cranky) dieing off. I like how the pic they used for that page is 60's/70's with an AK47...
    The age demographics of the survey would indeed be interesting - I'd say the majority of higher percentage thinkers would be rightwing nationalists, the under 30's and those who are i'll educated; either by state and by improper self study.
     
  3. GrauGeist

    GrauGeist Well-Known Member

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    Sadly, the modern education system is doing a great job at dumbing down students. Trading important historical education for social/gender sensitivity and material entitlement.
     
  4. silence

    silence Active Member

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    So who's gonna feed the Russians?
    How are the infantry gonna keep up with the tanks without US made trucks?
    How are the supplies gonna get to the front without trucks?
    Where does enough fuel to supply the army and air force come from?
    What will the Germans do with all the divisions that historically went to the Western Front and Italy?
    What will the Germans do with the fighters defending the Western Front and the Reich?
    What will the Kriegsmarine do if they're not frolicing in the North Atlantic?

    I've read that even historically the Soviets were at the bottom of their manpower barrel by the time it came to assault Berlin. Given that and the above, methinks the picture may change...
     
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  5. Airframes

    Airframes Benevolens Magister

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    I wonder if they know, or are allowed to know, that Stalin was in contact with Churchill, almost daily, ranting, and demanding more U.S. and British equipment, faster than was getting through, and didn't give a flying **** about the problems and losses of the Atlantic and Russia convoys?
     
  6. razor1uk

    razor1uk Well-Known Member

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    #6 razor1uk, Mar 15, 2014
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2014
    They'd probably say 'And lo, Stalin spread his hands wide, and from them came the resources needed for the TGPW'

    ..calling their part in WW2 TGPW, is one crux of their revisionism, perhaps that encourages their masses to adhear to there rules and allowed/tolerated lifestyles.

    Its the same incredulous argument between racism and semetsim encouraging double standards of one over another.
     
  7. sgtleehead

    sgtleehead New Member

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    Are these the same majority of Russians who think its acceptable to annex other peoples countries because they can. Politically stimulated anti west bullshit.

    Lee
     
  8. Marcel

    Marcel Well-Known Member

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    Little bit saddened by this survey. I recently saw a documentary about people in the convoy system to Moermansk. Sad that the Russians now try to let it look like their sacrifices were in vain. It seems not fair to these brave sailors.
     
  9. razor1uk

    razor1uk Well-Known Member

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    More than likely, antiwest just keeps the more volatile believers in check - I heard rumours (did any one else too?,) that the Russians or ethinic-Russ might've invited some pro-slavic Slovakians or Serbians over for the party not long after the trenches were dug - no doubt likely the (apologising for a coming stereotype) ones going around searching for reluctant unhappy Ukrainians to beat up coerce the referendum voters into going (Milosovic style) - to try and give Czar Vladimir his justification to walze in savior all like.
     
  10. GrauGeist

    GrauGeist Well-Known Member

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    The dangerous part about this, is that ANYTIME history is revised for one reason or another, you open Pandora's box.

    History must remain intact in it's entirety no matter how uncomfortable it may be, so it stands as an anchor to teach future generation valuable lessons that were earned at tremendous and oftentimes horriffic cost.

    Russia sacrificed more than her fair share to beat the Germans back, but she could not have done it alone. To say that she did cheapens the true sacrifice the Russians made for their country, cheapens the sacrifices made by those who came to her aid and casts doubt on any other aspects of thier history...
     
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  11. stona

    stona Well-Known Member

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    Many moons ago, in the bad old days of the USSR but as a result of 'Perestroika' and at the dawning of 'Glasnost', I met a bunch of Soviet naval cadets in the naval museum in what was then still called Leningrad. None of them had ever met someone from Britain before and they all believed that Britain had fought on the same side as Nazi Germany during 'The Great Patriotic War'.

    That's what an education system combined with tight control of information (see Orwell) can do for you.

    Cheers

    Steve
     
  12. razor1uk

    razor1uk Well-Known Member

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    #12 razor1uk, Mar 15, 2014
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2014
    Indeed so, so even all those Russians purged, executed, gulaged etc and the 're-educated' by/for/under Stalin 'the party', along with the Soviet civilian and military casualties/dead, is what it feels like they all suffered and died for nearly nothing too then. Let alone the Allied and German dead invovled in WW2 as well.

    If this is indeed the case, then as and when there's a next time, let em swing on their own and see how long the last alone.

    Apologies to the offended, I'm infuriated to an irksomely vexed extreme.

    The Great Patriotic War should be dead, long live WW2; as a testiment to human folly, righteousness, greed and depravity, lest its bloody torn fetid masses not be ignored, o'er those wishing to repeat such again - even Stalin would be p1ssed off with such ignorance to the lost Soviet heroes and allied comrades who assisted them in life and death.
     
  13. sgtleehead

    sgtleehead New Member

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    Yes - heard something similar. The Russians have a bad habit of going around the old blocks of Europe and rounding up 'allies' to support them in their ventures. They are correct in their claim that some of those armed are not indeed Russian soldiers. Armed militia, possibly some criminals, underworld and scum like back in Serbia. Sad thing is that some of those will want to be there, involved, some paid, some not paid, helping their allies, possible chance to kill someone and enjoy it etc. Sickening some of it is. I've known of people like this. Most Russains though believe that Crimea is theirs anyway and should never have been 'given away'.

    Lee
     
  14. sgtleehead

    sgtleehead New Member

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    Sorry - went off topic a bit.

    Lee
     
  15. N4521U

    N4521U Well-Known Member

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    Oh well.
    Maybe we should pull McDonalds out of Russia.............. That would teach them!!!
     
  16. tyrodtom

    tyrodtom Well-Known Member

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    #16 tyrodtom, Mar 16, 2014
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2014
    When I went to school in the late 50s and early 60s, WW2 was the war we studied the most. About every male teacher on the staff was a veteran.

    Nothing, or almost nothing, was ever mentioned about the eastern front. If you didn't do some independent study, you very likely wouldn't even have a idea the Russians fought on the same side as the allies during WW2.

    In the middle of the cold war, and just a few years away from the Korean war, nobody wanted to remind us that the US and Russia had once been allies.

    I remember when one of the students asked the teacher, " didn't the Russians take Berlin ? " the teacher acted as if we ( the US, not the Allies) could have easily done it, but let the Russians take it as a favor to them. And the student who pointed that fact out was treated like a commie for a while. I remember that well, because I was that student.

    Our own schools are just as guilty of teaching revisionists history as anyone else.
     
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  17. tomo pauk

    tomo pauk Creator of Interesting Threads

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    I'm not sure that any nation's school system has all the world events covered in a complete and unbiased manner. For the ww2, it was mostly 'us' doing the heavy lifting, while 'others', our allies, were just smuggling around. Cold war managed to drive that wedge further.
    We could not be sure that majority of the teachers understand the matter, nor that they are all so capable to channel their knowledge to the pupils. And much of the pupils would rather be out of the class during not just history, but geography, biology, chemistry, let alone math or physics.
     
  18. michaelmaltby

    michaelmaltby Well-Known Member

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    "....I've read that even historically the Soviets were at the bottom of their manpower barrel by the time it came to assault Berlin. Given that and the above, methinks the picture may change..."

    According to David Glantz "August Storm" that is not the case .... the attack on Japan was a massive, well planned multiple envelopment that the Soviets executed without a hitch. The only resources they stripped from the west were medical and engineering units. Nearly all equipment had been positioned in the far east including US material supplied under L-L. This suggests that man-power was not lacking for the Soviets...
     
  19. GrauGeist

    GrauGeist Well-Known Member

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    I can say that Stalin put himself into a difficult position by his several purges of the ranks before and after the winter war with Finland.

    Even if he had a full inventory of modern equipment and well trained troops on hand at the beginning of the German invasion, his General staff was woefully inexperienced.

    So taking that into consideration and then removing the Allied assistance both in material support and actual Allied assets engaging the Axis forces to the west and in the Med, it would look like a recipe for disaster for the Red Army.

    If the German/Axis forces were able to bleed the Soviet Union as bad as it did while maintaining active battle fronts and occupation troops abroad, just imagine the bleeding that would have occurred if the majority of those assets abroad were instead tossed into the breech alongside the Axis assets already present, along the Eastern Front.
     
  20. pbehn

    pbehn Well-Known Member

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    My Father was one, the Russians locked him and the rest of the crew up. It became a big issue since te Merchant marine wernt military. My father was in the RN...made no difference.
     
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