Seeking Bureau Number of PB4Y-1P named Wild Cherry II (1 Viewer)

[NNAM]

I'm a volunteer researcher at the National Naval Aviation Museum in Pensacola. We've had an inquiry about this PB4Y-1P, but can't answer it without the Bureau Number. The art was painted by Hal Olsen. This photo was taken in 1945 at Tinian when the a/c was assigned to VPB-102. Anybody recognize it? The numbers visible on the nose - "27" - were used as the side number when the a/c was in Fleet Air Photographic Squadron One (VD-1.) We need the Bureau Number

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[SaparotRob]

Welcome to the Forum. I can't help you but I'm sure help will be forthcoming.

 

[Snautzer01]

Pictures comes from The San Diego Air and Space Museum

Page 10

VP-14/VP-102/VPB-102 Special Collection

The San Diego Air and Space Museum houses the archives of the Squadrons VP-14/102. The Collection highlights the squadron under various designations. It was originally VP-14, but was established as Bombing Squadron ONE HUNDRED TWO (VB-102) on 15 February 1943. Redesignated Patrol...

www.flickr.com

 

[mjfur]

Do you have a higher-rez scan that shows the names under the cockpit windows?

Here's VD-1 War Diaries,
National Archives NextGen Catalog

Here's the VPB-102 War Diaries. Perhaps you may find a mention of a BuNo or Wild Cherry II.

National Archives NextGen Catalog

The online portal to the records held at the National Archives, and information about those records.

catalog.archives.gov

Here's a list of PB4Y-1 Bureau Numbers. Based on the forward turret it is most likely a later war build. If by dumb luck the number "27" were the last two of the BuNo.,
31936-32085 PB4Y-1 Consolidated (32027)
32087-32094 PB4Y-1 Consolidated
32097-32335 PB4Y-1 Consolidated (32127, 32227)
38733-38979 PB4Y-1 Consolidated (38827, 38927)
46725-46737 PB4Y-1 Consolidated (46727)
63915-63991 PB4Y-1 Consolidated (63927)
65287-65396 PB4Y-1 Consolidated (65327)
90132-90271 PB4Y-1 Consolidated (90227)
90462-90483 PB4Y-1 Consolidated

USN PB4Y Airframe History List

AAIR, Aviation Archaeological Investigation & Research, is a source of U. S. military aircraft accident reports, pictures of aircraft crash sites, MACRs (Missing Air Crew Reports) and individual aircraft history cards and historical research. Historic aircraft crash site surveys, search and...

www.aviationarchaeology.com

 

[CATCH 22]

Great sources! One can go further. Below are lists with PB4Y-1 frames in VD-1 and VPB-102 (I used the search machine from the site shown in the previous post).
As per the initial photo it is a late model B-24 (not a B-24D!). Unfortunately none of the lists shows an a/c which matches the above criteria.
VPB-102 was on Tinian before Sept.1945 but I don't think the war diaries will give some more information - I glanced them and they are not from the type describing the BuNos and the battle/side number during every mission. Maybe a crew member's name will help....

 

[Geoffrey Sinclair]

Notes on the PB4Y list

USAAF and USN production reports
USAAF types becoming PB4Y-1, built at San Diego unless noted.
45 B-24D transferred after USAAF use
229 B-24D
4 B-24D Fort Worth
1 B-24G North American
367 B-24J
186 B-24L
145 B-24M

740 PB4Y-2
34 RY-3
1,751 Total (278 D models, 977 PB4Y-1)

USN PB4Y-2 production reports BuNos,
59350 burned and was stricken
59554 crashed prior to acceptance, no replacement, contract not reduced
59836 destroyed by fire destroyed by fire at Lindbergh Field, with VRF-3?, navy development of B-24N
59967 built

USN list From USN PB4Y Airframe History List
278 B-24D
1 B-24G North American
368 B-24J (1 Fort Worth, BuNo. 32351 reported as B-24J-5-CF 42-64915 but BuNo is a Howard GH-2, and USAAF B-25G serial)
187 B-24L (BuNo, 65392 B-24L-20-CO 44-41857, should be a B-24M-5-CO)
144 B-24M (BuNo, 65392 B-24L-20-CO 44-41857, should be a B-24M-5-CO)
1 Unknown B-24 became PB4Y-1 BuNo. 32375 but that is actually a Howard GH-2
741 PB4Y-2 (2 cancelled, 59554, 59967, while 59544 has 2 entries)
40 RY-3 (6 cancelled, 90051 to 56)
1,760 8 cancelled, leaving 1,752
5 C-87, transfer from USAAF
3 C-87A, transfer from USAAF
1,768 entries

979 PB4Y-1 but 2 are mistakes, 32351 and 32375
741 PB4Y-2 but 59544 has 2 entries, and 2 reported cancelled actually flew

Should be PB4Y in list, BuNos.
P4Y-2 59350
P4Y-2S 59792
P4Y-2B 59990
P4Y-2 66246
P4Y-2 66253
P4Y-2 66258
P4Y-2 66280
P4Y-2 66298

RY-3 production
Jun-44 1
Dec-44 4
Jan-45 6
Feb-45 6
Mar-45 4
Jun-45 3
Jul-45 3
Aug-45 1
Nov-45 1
Dec-45 5

RY-3 RAF and USN notes, plus British Air Commission and Lend Lease by K J Meekcoms
90021/JT973 Toc 26-May-45 note: 45 group Canada BAC&LL: 45 group Canada
90022/JT974 note: Retained by Consolidated
90023/JT975 Toc 10-Mar-45 note: Recaptured BAC&LL: Exported from US
90024/JT976 Toc 10-Mar-45 note: Recaptured BAC&LL: Exported from US
90026/JT978 Toc 25-Jan-45 note: To Britain 6 Feb 45 or 18 May 45, recaptured BAC&LL: Exported from US
90027/JT979 Toc 19-Jan-45 note: To Britain 14 May 1945, SOC in transit 19 Oct 45 BAC&LL: Exported from US
90029/JT981 Toc 14-Apr-45 note: 45 group, reduced to prod. 28 Feb 46, recaptured BAC&LL: 45 group Canada
90030/JT982 Toc 1-Jun-45 note: To Britain 3 Jul 1945, ACSEA CAT E transit? BAC&LL: Crashed in transit
90031/JT983 Toc 1-Apr-45 note: To Britain 17 May 1945, ACSEA reduced to produce 28 Feb 46, recaptured BAC&LL: Exported from US
90032/JT984 Toc 10-Mar-45 note: 45 group, reduced to produce 28 Mar 46?, recaptured BAC&LL: 45 group Canada
90033/JT985 Toc 9-Apr-45 note: To Britain 4 May 1945, ACSEA SOC 15 Jun 45 BAC&LL: Crashed in transit
90034/JT986 Toc 29-Apr-45 note: Recaptured BAC&LL: Exported from US
90035/JT987 Toc 29-Apr-45 note: Recaptured BAC&LL: 45 group Canada
90036/JT988 Toc 29-Apr-45 note: Recaptured BAC&LL: 45 group Canada
90037/JT989 Toc 3-May-45 note: Recaptured BAC&LL: Exported from US
90038/JT990 Toc 4-May-45 note: Recaptured BAC&LL: 45 group Canada
90039/JT991 Toc 26-May-45 note: Recaptured BAC&LL: Exported from US
90040/JT992 Toc 26-May-45 note: Recaptured BAC&LL: 45 group Canada
90041/JT993 Toc 24-Jun-45 note: Recaptured BAC&LL: 45 group Canada
90042/JT994 Toc 7-Jul-45 note: To Britain 8 Aug 1945, recaptured BAC&LL: Exported from US
90045/JT997 Toc 31-Aug-45 note: Recaptured BAC&LL: Exported from US

 

[Hornet133]

'Wild Cherry II' was photographed with #crew number 7 as per attached if that helps.

 

[CATCH 22]

Some additional thoughts.
I found this photo of a PB4Y-1 from VD-1 called "Rovin' Redhead":

It seems to me that this is the same configuration (sub-type) as "Wild Cherry II" - check the big navigator's window and pilot's blister window. AFAIK this type of navigator's window was used since block # J-185 and higher.
In the list with a/c from VD-1 I posted above (post #5) "Rovin' Redhead" is listed as a PB4Y-1P built as B-24L-20-CO with BuNo 65299. There are 4 more a/c from the same type and in the 6xxxx-BuNos group. IMHO "Wild Cherry II" is one of them.

 

[cvairwerks]

Would be worth checking both of Alan C. Carey's books on the PB4Y.

The following BuNo's were know to be in VP-102 in 1943: 31976, 31974, 31993, 31995, 31977, 31978, 31990, 31010, 31993, 31975 and 31955. All are cited in an awards recommendation for Air Medals and DFC's.

VPNAVY - VP-102 History Summary Page - VP Patrol Squadron

VPNAVY is dedicated to the men and women of the United States Navy flying ASW VP/VPB Patrol Aircraft past and present. VPNAVY has attempted to collect every available piece of information via the InterNet. Everything and anything relating to U. S. Navy ASW Patrol Squadrons is posted with...

www.vpnavy.com

 

[mjfur]

Since NNAM is a volunteer at Pensacola he/she should start looking at the aircraft history cards for 63915-63991(63927) & 65287-65396 (65327) to see how many were assigned both VD-1 & VPB-102.

Here's another -1P in the #65xxx range.

NH 96689-KN Consolidated PB4Y-1P, photographic aircraft (Bu# 65335)

Photographed circa 1945-1946.

www.history.navy.mil

 

[NNAM]

Since NNAM is a volunteer at Pensacola he/she should start looking at the aircraft history cards for 63915-63991(63927) & 65287-65396 (65327) to see how many were assigned both VD-1 & VPB-102.

Here's another -1P in the #65xxx range.

NH 96689-KN Consolidated PB4Y-1P, photographic aircraft (Bu# 65335)

Photographed circa 1945-1946.

www.history.navy.mil

Did that already and none were assigned to VD-1 or VPB-102 . . . so, obviously the "27" on the nose is not the last 2 digits of the BuNo.

 

[CATCH 22]

Here's another -1P in the #65xxx range.

NH 96689-KN Consolidated PB4Y-1P, photographic aircraft (Bu# 65335)

Photographed circa 1945-1946.

www.history.navy.mil

This one is a B-24L-20 (same block as the one I described above) but as per the search machine you posted earlier BuNo 65335 was with VPP-1 and 2.

 

[CATCH 22]

Did that already and none were assigned to VD-1 or VPB-102 . . . so, obviously the "27" on the nose is not the last 2 digits of the BuNo.

Usually the "battle" number, tail number or whatever name this numbers got, was not part of the serial. They were reused if an a/c was lost in action or on the ground.
Do you have the aircraft cards for the dozen or so PB4Y-1P (late B-24J and B-24L, if you want to check more than just block L-20) as per the list I posted above (resp. can be found with the AAIR search machine)?
The a/c in question must not be in both lists (VPB-102 and VD-1), it's enough if it is mentioned in one of them.

 

[mjfur]

Did that already and none were assigned to VD-1 or VPB-102 . . . so, obviously the "27" on the nose is not the last 2 digits of the BuNo.

What I meant was to check every BuNo in the 63xxx & 65xxx blocks provided, not just the "27's". You could eliminate any aircraft that was wrecked or Stuck Off Charge before 1945 or assigned somewhere other than the Pacific. Work backwards to limit the possibilities.

63915-63991 PB4Y-1 Consolidated (76 aircraft)
65287-65396 PB4Y-1 Consolidated (109 aircraft)

 

[CATCH 22]

What I meant was to check every BuNo in the 63xxx & 65xxx blocks provided, not just the "27's". You could eliminate any aircraft that was wrecked or Stuck Off Charge before 1945 or assigned somewhere other than the Pacific. Work backwards to limit the possibilities.

63915-63991 PB4Y-1 Consolidated (76 aircraft)
65287-65396 PB4Y-1 Consolidated (109 aircraft)

That's fine - let us forget # "27" for a while. If it's not mentioned in a report or a war diary in connection with a BuNo, it's useless.
What I meant was to check the PB4Y-1P of the late blocks, from VD-1 and VPB-102 only. These are 10-15 a/c, not more. As I mentioned one can use the AAIR search machine you suggested for single units, not for all frames in the list.
Check Here
Just enter the squadron number (e.g.VD-1).

I checked the war diaries of VD-1. Based on the photo in post #7 (Thanks Hornet133!), the plane commanders (pilots) are Lt.F.E.Bahr and Lt. H.O.Enderson (3rd and 4th standing). Both names appear in the war diary for July 1945. At that time VD-1 had 8 PB4Y-1P. BTW couldn't find those names in the VPB-102 war diaries though (didn't check all of them). Still don't understand the connection between the 2 squadrons (see my last paragraph below).

Found the Aircraft Action Report from July 6, 1945 with description of Lt. Enderson's actions (see attached), here is the last page only:

All reports (more than 50 - didn't count them all, checked all for BuNos with no success) are the same as this one.

None of the documents, NONE!!!mentions a BuNo, battle number, tail number or any further identification of any of the planes!
I have seen war diaries with both (BuNo and a/c #), with BuNo at least, but unfortunately this is not the case.

The squadron did not lost a plane in July, August and September of 1945 and used 9 PB4Y-1P altogether - 8 of them remained in the squadron until the end of the war. We know at least one of them with a BuNo and a name: "Rovin' Redhead", BuNo 65299, tail # 22.
The remaining 8 as per VD-1 "B-24 frames"-list are:
65304, 62595, 65289, 65288, 46728,38955, 38894, 38832.

None of these planes served with VPB-102. The latter didn't use any Photoliberators (1P model).
Wild Cherry II couldn't be (IMHO) a different model (not 1P), because VD-1 used only Photoliberators towards the end of the war as per the above mentioned war diary.
Cheers!