Set a Ceylon trap for Nagumo, March 1942

[Admiral Beez]

The Brits had sufficient intel to know at least a month in advance that Admiral Nagumo was planning his Indian Ocean adventure, which is why Sommerville's Force was dispatched to Ceylon.

How much notice do the British need to prepare an effective trap for him? I'm thinking several squadrons of torpedo armed Beaufighters, Hampdens and Beauforts, with Spitfire (or something longer ranged) for escorts, etc. Is this too early for Mosquitos and Martlets to be involved? Any aircraft would necessarily need to be transferred, if only temporarily to Ceylon well in advance. What role would the RN play and what more could they send? Of course Swordfish and Albacores at night might be useful, but dive bombers are good for igniting IJN carriers, so Skuas or bomb-armed Fulmars? Somerville already has pretty much every available British carrier, though Hermes desperately needs a proper CAG. Radio equipped submarines, could watch for Nagumo's approach, but an effective picket screen requires a lot of submarines.

The IJN force was apparently ripe for attack as they maintained very little situational awareness or aerial reconnaissance. Indian Ocean raid - Wikipedia The British air and naval forces were equally hampered by having not operated together before and being ill prepared.

Our resident contrarians will tell us why such a trap couldn't, wouldn't or shouldn't have been possible. Let's toss them aside for the moment, and discuss how to set the trap, what intel, kit and tech (such as radar) the Brits need and when, and how other theatres such as the Battle of the Atlantic, Malta and North Africa are impacted.

 

[RW Mk. III]

The Brits had sufficient intel to know at least a month in advance that Admiral Nagumo was planning his Indian Ocean adventure, which is why Sommerville's Force was dispatched to Ceylon.

How much notice do the British need to prepare an effective trap for him? I'm thinking several squadrons of torpedo armed Beaufighters, Hampdens and Beauforts, with Spitfire (or something longer ranged) for escorts, etc. Is this too early for Mosquitos and Martlets to be involved? Any aircraft would necessarily need to be transferred, if only temporarily to Ceylon well in advance. What role would the RN play and what more could they send? Of course Swordfish and Albacores at night might be useful, but dive bombers are good for igniting IJN carriers, so Skuas? Somerville already has pretty much every available British carrier, though Hermes desperately needs a proper CAG. Radio equipped submarines, could watch for Nagumo's approach, but that's a lot of boats.

The IJN force was apparently ripe for attack as they maintained very little situational awareness or aerial reconnaissance. Indian Ocean raid - Wikipedia The British air and naval forces were equally hampered by having not operated together before and being ill prepared.

Our resident contrarians will tell us why such a trap couldn't, wouldn't or shouldn't have been possible. Let's toss them aside for the moment, and discuss how to set the trap, what intel, kit and tech (such as radar) the Brits need and when, and how other theatres such as the Battle of the Atlantic, Malta and North Africa are impacted.

First thought is what does the aviation fuel and runway situation look like on Ceylon and perhaps more importantly, at Addu atoll?

 

[The Basket]

This would be Midway before Midway and pure carrier action. So all about the airpower.

Oddly...maybe a few night torpedo strikes and the RN is smashing it. One could say that with the luck of the draw, Things could have been more advantageous that the RN could have sunk a few carriers with what they had.

The downside is the RN could have been at the mercy of 5 carriers in broad daylight....and that could be very bad news as it was already bad news.

1941 was a very bad year for British battleships so best will in the world what can you send? Hood? Barham? Prince of Wales and so on and so.

Valiant and QE and Nelson were damaged.

Malta convoys and Battle of the Atlantic and Scharnhorst and Tirpitz and Admiral Scheer and Prinz Eugen....

You could send Duke of York or KGV but what you leaving behind?

Also the Kido Butai and Kongos were much faster than Warspite and 4 R-class. So the idea you can ambush them is not going to happen.

 

[RW Mk. III]

This would be Midway before Midway and pure carrier action. So all about the airpower.

Oddly...maybe a few night torpedo strikes and the RN is smashing it. One could say that with the luck of the draw, Things could have been more advantageous that the RN could have sunk a few carriers with what they had.

The downside is the RN could have been at the mercy of 5 carriers in broad daylight....and that could be very bad news as it was already bad news.

1941 was a very bad year for British battleships so best will in the world what can you send? Hood? Barham? Prince of Wales and so on and so.

Valiant and QE and Nelson were damaged.

Malta convoys and Battle of the Atlantic and Scharnhorst and Tirpitz and Admiral Scheer and Prinz Eugen....

You could send Duke of York or KGV but what you leaving behind?

Also the Kido Butai and Kongos were much faster than Warspite and 4 R-class. So the idea you can ambush them is not going to happen.

Agreed, additional surface combatants are a nonstarter. I think beez was on to something with the idea of surprising them with a potent land-based force. Get sight of them with patrol aircraft and send a strong attacking force against them as they range in to attack Trincomalee, a large number of beaufighters and beauforts flinging torpedoes at the carrier's could deal a lot of damage. Spitfires or hurricanes or even fulmars shooting up the attacking aircraft, advanced warning is the key here. And what was missing in the real event.

But you have to reinforce Ceylon on the hush hush or the Japanese will just turn around and attack less well defended targets, which are thick on the ground in the Pacific and Indian at this time.

Then use the RN carriers to either sink the damaged vessels, or more likely simply as a threat in being to force the slowed damaged ships scuttling.

 

[Freebird]

? Somerville already has pretty much every available British carrier, though Hermes desperately needs a proper CAG..

He does not have "pretty much every carrier".
The British have 10 carriers in the spring of 42

Somerville has 2 out of 6 Fleet Carriers, HMS Indomitable and HMS Formidable.

HMS Victorious is in the Home Fleet, escorting Arctic convoys.
HMS Eagle is in Force H at Gibraltar, escorting Malta convoys.
HMS Furious is in refit in Pennsylvania from Oct 41 to April 42.
HMS Illustrious is repairing collision damage until Mar '42 (Oops!), then dispatched to the Indian Ocean, but suffers a minor hangar fire on April 2 near West Africa. (Oops!)

Somerville has 1 out of 4 auxiliary/escort carriers, HMS Hermes

HMS Argus, HMS Archer & HMS Avenger are elsewhere

 

[Kevin J]

The Torbeau doesn't appear until 1943. The torpedo equipped Hampden, don't know. Same speed as an Avenger at Midway. Wouldn't give it much chance without fighter escort of which there was none.

 

[Kevin J]

The Torbeau doesn't appear until 1943. The torpedo equipped Hampden, don't know. Same speed as an Avenger at Midway. Wouldn't give it much chance without fighter escort of which there was none.

For a daylight dive bombing attack, the Fulmar is too slow. Take the Defiant, put the radiator under the nose, remove the turret, folding wings. Unarmed clean, maybe 340 mph. 500 lb bomb under fuselage, that might do it unescorted. Otherwise night torpedo attack by Swordfish.

 

[Admiral Beez]

Take the Defiant, put the radiator under the nose, remove the turret, folding wings.

That doesn't exist in a naval variant. We have to use what we've got in March 1942. The only Defiants you can have are the RAF's nightfighters.

 

[Kevin J]

That doesn't exist in a naval variant. We have to use what we've got in March 1942. The only Defiants you can have are the RAF's nightfighters.

Oops, I'm replying to 2 threads at once. Obviously we need BP to build a Roc based on the Defiant then problem solved.

 

[RCAFson]

For a daylight dive bombing attack, the Fulmar is too slow. Take the Defiant, put the radiator under the nose, remove the turret, folding wings. Unarmed clean, maybe 340 mph. 500 lb bomb under fuselage, that might do it unescorted. Otherwise night torpedo attack by Swordfish.

The Fulmar is faster than the SBD...

 

[Kevin J]

The Fulmar is faster than the SBD...

250 lb bomb only. Dive speed > A6M2. Can't outrun it though, unless you take all the wing guns out? Don't know.

 

[The Basket]

Having escort carriers is pointless as too slow and too vulnerable.

Furious is a no.
Eagle is doing Malta convoys.

So illustrious and Victorious then.

In my view that's ya lot.

Unless you want North Sea undefended and for Britain to lose North Africa and Malta.

What aircraft were flown by Hermes, Indomitable and Formidable at this time frame and how many,?? More Albacores than Swordfish

 

[RCAFson]

250 lb bomb only. Dive speed > A6M2. Can't outrun it though, unless you take all the wing guns out? Don't know.

The Fulmar could carry a 60IG drop tank or a 500lb bomb, on the centre-line attachment point.

 

[Admiral Beez]

So illustrious and Victorious then.

Illustrious is doable, and she can ferry a deck load of RAF aircraft. To me, much of the trap is a RAF affair. The RN have their strike and reconnoitre role, but the heavy fist will be the RAF. Without the benefit of radar, the IJNAF won't see the Beaufighters coming.

 

[Freebird]

Having escort carriers is pointless as too slow and too vulnerable.

Furious is a no.
Eagle is doing Malta convoys.

So illustrious and Victorious then.

In my view that's ya lot.

?
Victorious is the only Home Fleet carrier, and the only one available in the north Atlantic if Tirpitz sorties
Illustrious is fixing a prang.

 

[Freebird]

.

What aircraft were flown by Hermes, Indomitable and Formidable at this time frame and how many,?? More Albacores than Swordfish

Formidable: 16 Martlet, 6 Fulmar, 22 Albacore
Indomitable: 12 Fulmar, 10 Sea Hurricane, 24 Albacore

 

[RW Mk. III]

Illustrious is doable, and she can ferry a deck load of RAF aircraft. To me, much of the trap is a RAF affair. The RN have their strike and reconnoitre role, but the heavy fist will be the RAF. Without the benefit of radar, the IJNAF won't see the Beaufighters coming.

We're Boston's and Maryland's used in low-altitude precision level bombing in this timeframe? They were available in Egypt. Very dangerous to attack carriers in daylight with them as they would be unescorted, but also large payload and good range. Potentially lethal to a carrier even if attrition to the attackers is very high. But I don't know if they were quite suitable, or had the tactics necessary developed for them. But a crash-course on ship sinking could be endeavoured maybe?

Edit- if you could have Beau's act as pathfinders and flak-suppression it maybe doesn't look too too grim? It all relies on this big force just sitting at standby until the Japanese show up. So recon would have to A-1, and leadership has to be dead sure of their intelligence about the raid and it's objectives.

 

[Admiral Beez]

We can see how close Nagumo came to Ceylon. Well within range of a Spitfire-escorted heavy RAF strike.

 

[Snautzer01]

Get in the subs in wolfpack mode. Fly out everything with a bit of range to sea mine duty. The japanese navy at that time was not very efficient in anti sub action. Go after the tankers that fuel the fleet. A mighty fleet low on fuel is a retriving fleet.

 

[Admiral Beez]

Get in the subs in wolfpack mode. Fly out everything with a bit of range to sea mine duty. The japanese navy at that time was not very efficient in anti sub action. Go after the tankers that fuel the fleet. A mighty fleet low on fuel is a retriving fleet.

Agreed. But did RN submarine skippers have experience in wolfpack tactics? Even today they seem to operate alone.

Also, the Sumatran strait would be a good place for the RN's Perisher captains to take down any survivors.