Shall we dine Italian or Japanese?

[Magister]

A the time that Italy exited the war in September of 1943, it's Series 5 fighters (Macchi Mc-205, Reggiane Re-2005, Fiat G.55) had already been pressed into action although in pitifully small numbers.

QUESTION - Which were the top of the line, operational Japanese fighters at that time (no later than the end of September of 1943) and how would they have stacked up against the Italian 5 Series in performance?

 

[Jabberwocky]

IJAAF:

Ki-61-Ia/b: First combats in April 1943

Ki-43-II KAI: First combats in mid 1943

Ki-44-IIb: Service entry in early 1943

IJN:

A6M3-32/22a: Service entry mid 1942
*** The faster and heavier A6M5 appeared in service in October, 1943, so just misses out on the cut-off date ***

J2M2: Limited service entry in March, 1943

 

[Magister]

Do you have an opinion on how would they have stacked up against the Italian 5 Series in performance?

 

[Dogwalker]

They seems to me more a match for the C-202 (with some advantages for the japanese machines) than for the "5 series" fighters. With the obvious limitations, in confronting them, coming from the fact that they were adapt to operate in different conditions.

DogW

 

[loomaluftwaffe]

the Ki-61 is like a 109E, a 5 series fighter is more of a 109G
the Ki-43 was just sick

 

[Dogwalker]

No surprise if the Americans niknamed the Ki-61 "Tony".

DogW

 

[evangilder]

Damn, that looks almost identical!

 

[Dogwalker]

Infact, at the beginning, the allies thought it was a licence building. From this the "italian" name.
Even prestations were similar, with a slightly advantage in speed and service ceiling for the C-202 and in combat range for the Ki-61

DogW

 

[evangilder]

Seems to be too close to be coincidental.

 

[Jabberwocky]

With the Ki-61 the designers, Takeo Doi and Kenkichi Kyota, want to create a plane that adopted as many 'Western' features as possible. Their main inspitation was the Bf 109 and Spitfire i.e an inline powered, low wing monoplane. It was a real break from traditional Japanese emphasis on turning performance, instead adopting climb, cruise speed and dive performance as its main features. It was probably the first Japanese 'high speed' fighter, and really the first to bring Japan into the late 1930s in terms of aircraft thinking.

The designers first effort was the DB-601 powered Ki-60, which was almost universally derided by Japanese pilots a less manuverable than most bombers. However, when test flown against a Bf 109E it actually compared quite favourably in most areas. It probably says as much about the mindset of Japanese pilots as it does about realitve performance of the planes though. I think that some Japanese pilots wished they had never seen a fast monoplane.

The Ki-61 followed about 6 months later. Doi and Kenkichi created a much refined version of the Ki-60, sort of like what Hawker did when moving from the Typhoon to the Tempest. The relocated the oil coolers and radiators, created an integral engine mounting in the foward fuselage and lowered the cockpit and reshaped the cowling better to fit the Ha-40, a licenced built and somewhat modified DB-601A.

The Ki-61 proved to be quite manouverable, but what pilots liked best about it was its ability to stick with a captured P-40E and an imported Bf 109E in a dive and its ability to tansition into a zoom climb. In mock dogfights it reportedly outflew both the German and American types as well as being suerior to the Ki-43-II and Ki-44-I.

Performance numbers, as with most Japanese types, are hard to pin down. 540 kph/348 mph is the most commonly quoted figure, but this may be without WEP, because lots of Japanese figures are usually for combat power, not emergency power. WEP figure may of been 590 kph/ 368 mph, but i'm not 100% certain. Climb seems to have been about 7 1/2 minutes to 5000 meters/ 16,500 feet. Turn performance was reportedly superior to the P-40 and Bf-109E and this was further improved when the flaps were readjusted in the Ki-61-Ia (which also incorporated two MG 151/20 cannon in the wings).

 

[Jank]

The Eyetie birds that are the Mc 205, G 55 and Re 2005 would be better than the Jap planes.

Too bad the Eyeties don't get more respect for their birds. I read o this board that the Germs were thinking of replacing the Me 109 withthe G 56 but it turned out to be too costly.

 

[pops-paolo]

A the time that Italy exited the war in September of 1943, it's Series 5 fighters (Macchi Mc-205, Reggiane Re-2005, Fiat G.55) had already been pressed into action although in pitifully small numbers.

QUESTION - Which were the top of the line, operational Japanese fighters at that time (no later than the end of September of 1943) and how would they have stacked up against the Italian 5 Series in performance?

no chance

 

[FLYBOYJ]

no chance

Why?

 

[pops-paolo]

Why?

AGAINST A KI 61or A6M5
man has got to be tripping
a menace to society
down bad no cap

 

[BiffF15]

AGAINST A KI 61or A6M5
man has got to be tripping
a menace to society
down bad no cap

Would you please type in some form of non slang English. I'm interested in this thread however your point is being lost / concealed for me by your writing style.

Thanks,
Biff

 

[pops-paolo]

Would you please type in some form of non slang English. I'm interested in this thread however your point is being lost / concealed for me by your writing style.

Thanks,
Biff

ok

 

[GregP]

Perhaps he is just being nationalistic instead of thinking it through.

 

[pops-paolo]

h

Perhaps he is just being nationalistic instead of thinking it through.

how

 

[Thumpalumpacus]

I don't expect planes, especially fighter planes, to wear caps. They often did and do perform CAP duty.

In all seriousness, though, complete sentences are helpful.

 

[GregP]

For instance, suppose I say: The climb rate for the airplane is 3600 feet per minute.

Google Translate turns that into Italian as: La velocità di salita dell'aereo è di 3600 piedi al minuto.

I'm not very certain how good that translation is, but I'd guess it isn't exactly correct as written above.