Shall we dine Italian or Japanese?

Discussion in 'Aviation' started by Magister, Feb 2, 2006.

  1. Magister

    Magister Member

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2005
    Messages:
    183
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Occupation:
    programmer
    Location:
    Cupertino, CA
    A the time that Italy exited the war in September of 1943, it's Series 5 fighters (Macchi Mc-205, Reggiane Re-2005, Fiat G.55) had already been pressed into action although in pitifully small numbers.

    QUESTION - Which were the top of the line, operational Japanese fighters at that time (no later than the end of September of 1943) and how would they have stacked up against the Italian 5 Series in performance?
     
  2. Jabberwocky

    Jabberwocky Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2005
    Messages:
    1,090
    Likes Received:
    16
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Occupation:
    Teacher
    Location:
    Japan
    IJAAF:

    Ki-61-Ia/b: First combats in April 1943

    Ki-43-II KAI: First combats in mid 1943

    Ki-44-IIb: Service entry in early 1943

    IJN:

    A6M3-32/22a: Service entry mid 1942
    *** The faster and heavier A6M5 appeared in service in October, 1943, so just misses out on the cut-off date ***

    J2M2: Limited service entry in March, 1943
     
  3. Magister

    Magister Member

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2005
    Messages:
    183
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Occupation:
    programmer
    Location:
    Cupertino, CA
    Do you have an opinion on how would they have stacked up against the Italian 5 Series in performance?
     
  4. Dogwalker

    Dogwalker Member

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2005
    Messages:
    448
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    Manziana Field, near Rome
    They seems to me more a match for the C-202 (with some advantages for the japanese machines) than for the "5 series" fighters. With the obvious limitations, in confronting them, coming from the fact that they were adapt to operate in different conditions.

    DogW
     
  5. loomaluftwaffe

    loomaluftwaffe Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2005
    Messages:
    1,864
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    the Ki-61 is like a 109E, a 5 series fighter is more of a 109G
    the Ki-43 was just sick
     
  6. Dogwalker

    Dogwalker Member

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2005
    Messages:
    448
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    Manziana Field, near Rome
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    No surprise if the Americans niknamed the Ki-61 "Tony".

    DogW
     
  7. evangilder

    evangilder "Shooter"
    Staff Member Administrator

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2004
    Messages:
    19,419
    Likes Received:
    137
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Occupation:
    Network Engineer/Photographer
    Location:
    Moorpark, CA
    Home Page:
    :shock: Damn, that looks almost identical!
     
  8. Dogwalker

    Dogwalker Member

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2005
    Messages:
    448
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    Manziana Field, near Rome
    Infact, at the beginning, the allies thought it was a licence building. From this the "italian" name.
    Even prestations were similar, with a slightly advantage in speed and service ceiling for the C-202 and in combat range for the Ki-61

    DogW
     
  9. evangilder

    evangilder "Shooter"
    Staff Member Administrator

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2004
    Messages:
    19,419
    Likes Received:
    137
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Occupation:
    Network Engineer/Photographer
    Location:
    Moorpark, CA
    Home Page:
    Seems to be too close to be coincidental.
     
  10. Jabberwocky

    Jabberwocky Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2005
    Messages:
    1,090
    Likes Received:
    16
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Occupation:
    Teacher
    Location:
    Japan
    With the Ki-61 the designers, Takeo Doi and Kenkichi Kyota, want to create a plane that adopted as many 'Western' features as possible. Their main inspitation was the Bf 109 and Spitfire i.e an inline powered, low wing monoplane. It was a real break from traditional Japanese emphasis on turning performance, instead adopting climb, cruise speed and dive performance as its main features. It was probably the first Japanese 'high speed' fighter, and really the first to bring Japan into the late 1930s in terms of aircraft thinking.

    The designers first effort was the DB-601 powered Ki-60, which was almost universally derided by Japanese pilots a less manuverable than most bombers. However, when test flown against a Bf 109E it actually compared quite favourably in most areas. It probably says as much about the mindset of Japanese pilots as it does about realitve performance of the planes though. I think that some Japanese pilots wished they had never seen a fast monoplane.

    The Ki-61 followed about 6 months later. Doi and Kenkichi created a much refined version of the Ki-60, sort of like what Hawker did when moving from the Typhoon to the Tempest. The relocated the oil coolers and radiators, created an integral engine mounting in the foward fuselage and lowered the cockpit and reshaped the cowling better to fit the Ha-40, a licenced built and somewhat modified DB-601A.

    The Ki-61 proved to be quite manouverable, but what pilots liked best about it was its ability to stick with a captured P-40E and an imported Bf 109E in a dive and its ability to tansition into a zoom climb. In mock dogfights it reportedly outflew both the German and American types as well as being suerior to the Ki-43-II and Ki-44-I.

    Performance numbers, as with most Japanese types, are hard to pin down. 540 kph/348 mph is the most commonly quoted figure, but this may be without WEP, because lots of Japanese figures are usually for combat power, not emergency power. WEP figure may of been 590 kph/ 368 mph, but i'm not 100% certain. Climb seems to have been about 7 1/2 minutes to 5000 meters/ 16,500 feet. Turn performance was reportedly superior to the P-40 and Bf-109E and this was further improved when the flaps were readjusted in the Ki-61-Ia (which also incorporated two MG 151/20 cannon in the wings).
     
  11. Jank

    Jank Member

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2005
    Messages:
    679
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    18
    The Eyetie birds that are the Mc 205, G 55 and Re 2005 would be better than the Jap planes.

    Too bad the Eyeties don't get more respect for their birds. I read o this board that the Germs were thinking of replacing the Me 109 withthe G 56 but it turned out to be too costly.
     
Loading...

Share This Page