Sherman vs Tiger Point Blank

Discussion in 'WW2 General' started by GingahNinja, Aug 15, 2014.

  1. GingahNinja

    GingahNinja Member

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    Looking for help tracking down a video/story of the Sherman tank crew hiding behind a hedgerow who happened to have a Tiger come rolling into them point blank and take a shot, yet they survived and got away. The 88mm gun shot once and ripped a hole/trench through the top of the turret of the M4.

    Anyone have info regarding this incredible story?
     
  2. GingahNinja

    GingahNinja Member

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  3. CORSNING

    CORSNING Active Member

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    Wow Ginga, I'm lost for words. I gotta go to the bathroom.
     
  4. redcoat

    redcoat Active Member

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    The first Tiger I lost in Normandy happened when a British Sherman and Tiger I suddenly met each other head on at close range on a narrow lane, the Sherman crew reacted first and fired a round which hit the drivers vision port wounding the driver and causing a small fire. The cries of the driver and the smoke caused the Tigers tank commander to order the crew to bale out, enabling the British to capture the almost undamaged tank.
     
  5. GingahNinja

    GingahNinja Member

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    Lol incredible war stories as usual!

    Can't believe the 88mm round literally cut through the turret like a hot knife thru butter and I definitely can not imagine being in the commander/gunner/loader position either lol
     
  6. parsifal

    parsifal Well-Known Member

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    Overall, tank losses for the germans in normandy were heavier than those suffered by 21st AG. But this was from all causes . As of 31 July the OQu at OKH reported losses in france to the end of July as:

    Pz II – 2
    Pz IV (k) – 1
    Pz IV (l) – 273
    Panther – 197
    Tiger I – 30
    BefPz III – 2
    BefPz V – 8
    BefPz VI – 3
    BeoPz III – 2
    StuG III/IV – 95

    Unfortunately August losses appear to be badly underreported while September is highly over-reported (largely, i think, because of the political machinations occurring in Germany at the time) , so it is difficult to ascertain just when all losses occurred.

    On the allied side, Losses were reported June-December 1944 on a monthly basis by the MG RAC, 21st Army Group.

    June – Sherman 66, Cromwell 42, Churchill 16
    July – Sherman 186, Cromwell 28, Churchill 17
    August – Sherman 547, Cromwell 143, Churchill 142, Challenger 2

    Note that there was a lot of “catching up” that was done in August. It is obvious that the June losses are underreported for one thing. That was a consequence of the system, since those vehicles KO’ed or not fit within 24 hours were, in theory at least, to be evacuated from the division to an army repair depot where they were often held for some time before being officially “written off”. Also note that according to the administrative orders issued, tanks in the last category were only supposed to be reported as such once, then they would be dropped from the unit report. However, that seems a rule more observed in the breach than anything.

    First US Army tank status reports were made irregularly during June; daily reporting only became normalized in July. Thereafter, with a few exceptions when days are missing or units did not report, daily reports were made for First Army. Then after 12th Army Group became operational, reports were made for all units assigned to the First, Third, Ninth, and Fifteenth Army. Losses were initially reported as a cumulative total for the first 26 days after D-Day (6 June-1 July) and thereafter on a “weekly” basis (that actually varied from four to nine days).

    Strength, 22:00 29 July
    M4 (75mm) 748
    M4 (76mm) 95
    M4 (105mm) 48
    M5 541

    Losses to 1 July
    M4 (75mm) 187
    M5 44

    Losses 2-29 July
    M4 (75mm) 208
    M4 (76mm) 12
    M4 (105mm) 4
    M5 67

    Why would the germans suffer heavier losses than the allies, despite the superiuority of their tank park. There a number of factors at work..numbers, airpower, losing ground artillery, all played their parts, but at the very heart of the german defeat was their attrocious (relative to the allies logistic support) supply chain in operation at that time. This arose because of the interdiction campaign, mostly, and a major reason why they lost the campaign in the finish.
     
  7. redcoat

    redcoat Active Member

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    One of the major problems until recently has been how tank losses have been recorded in the various armies. German units only recorded those tanks which had either been totally lost, or were so badly damaged they had to be sent back to Germany for major rebuilds, while US and British losses included all tanks which were out of action at the end of the day, even those which could be repaired within 24 hours.
    A good example of the difference this makes is at the Second Battle of El Alamein where allied tanks losses are often recorded as around 500, but if we use the German method of counting tank losses the figure falls to around 150 in total.
     
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