The Basket
Senior Master Sergeant
- 3,712
- Jun 27, 2007
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Right! But the battleships could have bombarded Midway rather than doing so with carrier planes. Had the IJN carriers been positioned somewhat away from Midway and tasked only with CAP and dealing with the expected US carriers, there would have been a much better chance for Japanese success. As it was the IJN carriers had to deal with Midway air attacks as well as well as the Devastators. With both bombs and torpedoes littering the hanger decks as well as overstressed CAP, the IJN carriers were overexposed and overextended.
The battleships could (and should) have shouldered the major part of the load prior to the USN carriers showing there hand.
ah, not quite corect.
The Battlecruisers escorting the fast carriers were each equipped with 5 x 5in/40 DPs, 4 x 40mm AA and either 8 13.2mm plus 20x 25mm AA or 28 x 25mm (Ive got conflicting specifications). Yamato went into Midway carrying 12 x 5in and 34 25mm plus 4 13.2mm MG. The carriers were generally fitted with 12 5/40s and typically 24 x 25mm AA plus 22 x 13.2 AAMG
The 5/40 was an older gun than the 5/50 fitted to most of the escort destroyers. it was a reasonably effective AA gun, unlike the 5/50, which had insufficient training and elevating speeds to do this job adequately. The USN 5/38 was far superior in that regard to both guns
The Japanese made the right decision to disperse their task forces and rely on manouvre over massed defensive fire. in order to derive benefit froma mutual fire of their escorts, the Destroyers needed to be carrying an effective DP wepon, and this they simply did not possess. Whereas the 40mm Bofors could also offer some cover fire over the carrier from a normal tactical distance (about 800yards for a Destroyer, roughly 2000 yards for a Battlship) the 25mm was not really effective at those ranges.
The 25mm never was competitve to the bofors, but it was better than the 20mm fitted to most US ships in 1942.
Given the limitations of the armament, it made sense to disperse the TF when under attack and rely on manouvre over fire.
You know, Parsifal, the Japanese might have done better had they retained this gun for their destroyers instead of going to the 5"/50. Or at least made some modifications to the 5"/50, like turrets with better train/elevation, power ramming ability, and ability to be loaded at higher elevations.
The B-17s, B-26s and obsolete Marine planes on Midway wouldn't have been much of a threat to the battleships. A couple of smaller carriers would suffice for CAP.
The battleships couldnt bombard Midway until the airpower on Midway was defeated. The Japanese demonstrated that even a modern battleship is no match for airpower. Flak or maneuvers dont matter.
Regarding the criticisms of the 25mm, unquestionably it was a weapon that at the end of the war, was considered to have some serious failings. Further, one only has to look at the results that the overall efforts of the Japanese AA, to know that it was far less effective than US efforts. Or so it might appear. Even on that score there is sharp debate, with some knowledgeable people in this place arguing it was only fractionally as effective as the claims made for it (particularly the 5/3. I dont fully buy those arguments, but neither do I fully accept the stuff about the effectiveness of the 20mm. It was considered obsolete by 1946, less than 5 years after service entry, and that speaks volumes about its true effectiveness to my mind. The bofors, by comparison, is stil going pretty strong 70 years later.
this gun was probably the best all round ship borne AA weapon of both sides during the war, though the 5/38 was far more numerous, and it is quite arguable as to which gun was actually better. .
i highly suspect that the vast majority of ammunition was expended firing at ranges well beyind the effective range of the 20mm gun.
The distance from Midway to Hawaii is about 1,200 miles. The G4M "Betty" had a range of about 1,700 miles.if the IJN took midway, did they have a bomber that had the range to reach pearl?
The distance from Midway to Hawaii is about 1,200 miles. The G4M "Betty" had a range of about 1,700 miles.
To try and bomb Hawaii from Midway would be stretching it...
That's actually the original use for Midway and many other small atolls across the Pacific.It was never intended to develop midway for japanese bombers. however they did intend to base long range seaplane recon aircraft and maintain survellance of Pearl more or less continuously