drgondog
Major
Yes - usually at the theatre service depots
Spitfire Mk.XIV vs P-51D Mustang
- Thread starter Soren
- Start date
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Yes - usually at the theatre service depots
TheMustangRider
Senior Airman
Thank you for the answer.
Seems like this thread revives about every two years or so. My pick between the two would be the Spitfire XIV. It has all the advantages once you are in the fight. Problem is that there may be a lot of fights you can't get to for lack of range.
- Ivan.
- Ivan.
(while not wanting to pile up on a new member)
To the best of my knowledge, P-51 was not designed as long range escort either, but as a 'better P-40'.
Spitfire with additional internal fuel (Mk.VII/VIII) and drop-tank capability was there in 1942, so the long range capability was present. Allies have had the opportunity to use it in early 1943 in ETO, but missed it. Ditto for P-51A, for mid 1943.
To the best of my knowledge, P-51 was not designed as long range escort either, but as a 'better P-40'.
Spitfire with additional internal fuel (Mk.VII/VIII) and drop-tank capability was there in 1942, so the long range capability was present. Allies have had the opportunity to use it in early 1943 in ETO, but missed it. Ditto for P-51A, for mid 1943.
drgondog
Major
TP is correct. The P-51 was designed as a fighter 'better than P-40' and for lack of a better phrase was a utility fighter with range and performance.
As to the MKVIII, including drop tanks, by the time the wing was re-designed to provide another 100 gallons the Spit would no longer be a Spit - but would have been an interesting and important derivative. Its drag was significantly higher 'as is' and a new wing may have increased drag even more making it difficult to get more than 250+ mile radius without huge drop tanks.
As to the MKVIII, including drop tanks, by the time the wing was re-designed to provide another 100 gallons the Spit would no longer be a Spit - but would have been an interesting and important derivative. Its drag was significantly higher 'as is' and a new wing may have increased drag even more making it difficult to get more than 250+ mile radius without huge drop tanks.
TheMustangRider
Senior Airman
Two of the main USAAF fighters I've heard were designed to be interceptors are the P-47 Thunderbolt and the P-38 Lightning.
I don't know about the P-47 but in my opinion the P-38 would had been a great interceptor.
I don't know about the P-47 but in my opinion the P-38 would had been a great interceptor.
Plus and most importantly, the Spitfire is so much prettier. 8)
syscom3
Pacific Historian
The P-38 was designed to be an interceptor, and nothing else. It had ax excellent time to climb to altitude. The P-47 was to be a high altitude fighter, and its performance at 30,000 ft. was good.
Glider
Captain
I have been thinking about this thread and as to which you would prefer would simply depend on the tactical situation. If you were attacking then the P51 has it in spades due to its range while still having a very good performance, if you are defending then the Spit due to its agility and climb.
At low/medium altitude the P51 is I understand faster but in a climb to altitude the Spit has the advantage.
At low/medium altitude the P51 is I understand faster but in a climb to altitude the Spit has the advantage.
TheMustangRider
Senior Airman
Thanks for the clarification Syscom, which leads me to think how the P-38 would have performed alongside Spitfires and Hurricanes given a scenario in which it would have been available in meaningful numbers for the RAF during the Battle of Britain.
Nynjazen
Recruit
It seems RM 797 is wrong. My photo shows RM787
Jean Luc
Jean Luc
Spitfire Mk.XIV
Max Engine power: 2035 hp.
Max Speed: 721 km/h.
Max Climb Rate: 5,200 ft/min.
Wing Span: 11,23 m.
Wing Area: 22,48 m2.
Empty Weight: 2,994 kg.
Max. Weight: 3,856 kg.
Armament: two 20mm cannons and four 7.7mm Machine Guns.
P-51D Mustang
Max Engine power: 1720 hp.
Max Speed: 703 km/h.
Max Climb rate: 3,475 ft/min.
Wing Span: 11,28 m.
Wing Area: 21.83 m2.
Empty Weight: 3,232 kg.
Max. Weight: 5,206 kg.
Armament: Six Browning M2 .50 Caliber Machine Guns.
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So wich one would you bet your money on in a clash between the two ?
Kryten
Senior Airman
climb rate and acceleration favours the spit, along with the turn radius so I would have to say the spit had the technical edge, that however is nothing but academic relative to the tactical situation during the encounter!
Lol its pretty obvious where the guest 'Lunatic' comes from, poor old Mustang still using the Merlin. Imagine a Griffon powered P51! (of course thats in essence what the UK was doing with its Spitful / Seafang - Fastest recorded Piston powered Aircraft)
I've read through many pages here I'll clarify at short range - the Spit LF XIVe (Clipped wings - 2 50 cals 2 Cannons) was a quite literately a deadly killing machine, served with distinction in Germany, even with a drop tank it was highly maneuverable, regarding armour, the XIV fuselage was stronger than the regular merlin powered spits / with a modified firewall behind the engine (it was highly redesigned). etc etc also I quote "The visceral feeling of the power of the griffon engine transferred to the seat of a pilots seat made you want to go kill"
Sorry but the XIVe would make short work of a P51 in a dogfight, unless of of course a Mustang MKIII pilot had the red letter S on his T-Shirt
Why did we use so many 303 bullets earlier on ? - has anyone thought there were a few lying about at the time in the UK
Btw I think the wing air intakes on that profile are the wrong size, i think they should be slightly larger.
S!
I've read through many pages here I'll clarify at short range - the Spit LF XIVe (Clipped wings - 2 50 cals 2 Cannons) was a quite literately a deadly killing machine, served with distinction in Germany, even with a drop tank it was highly maneuverable, regarding armour, the XIV fuselage was stronger than the regular merlin powered spits / with a modified firewall behind the engine (it was highly redesigned). etc etc also I quote "The visceral feeling of the power of the griffon engine transferred to the seat of a pilots seat made you want to go kill"
Sorry but the XIVe would make short work of a P51 in a dogfight, unless of of course a Mustang MKIII pilot had the red letter S on his T-Shirt
Why did we use so many 303 bullets earlier on ? - has anyone thought there were a few lying about at the time in the UK
Btw I think the wing air intakes on that profile are the wrong size, i think they should be slightly larger.
S!
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CobberKane
Banned
- 706
- Apr 4, 2012
I believe Eric 'Winkle' Brown, whom we must all accept is virtually God in such matters, rated the Spitfire XIV a little ahead of the P51D as a dogfighter. A little more controversially, he actually also placed it marginally behind the Fw190D. Ouch!
wuzak
Captain
I thought he ranked them Spit XIV, Fw 190 D-9, P-51D in that order.
FLYBOYJ
"THE GREAT GAZOO"
Brown was one of the greatest test pilots who ever lived. He was also biased and arrogant, but rightfully so...
drgondog
Major
Given equal pilot skill, the XIV should defeat both the P-51 and FW 190 - If it could fly far enough to get to the fight.
vinnye
Senior Airman
A Griffon engined P51 - now that would be something special!
