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Actually the problem for the allies is that their ground attack units were decimated by AA AND they didn't hit anything .Stuka units in the East had low loss rates despite being used in contested airspace and unlike their allied counterparts were precision weapons.
That explains why many units on the eastern front resorted to night attacks a nearly useless technique, though safer i admit.
Actually the problem for the allies is that their ground attack units were decimated by AA AND they didn't hit anything .Stuka units in the East had low loss rates despite being used in contested airspace and unlike their allied counterparts were precision weapons.
In case you are not familiar with American slang; jumping the shark means to lose credibility past the point of ever recovering it. It originates from a 1970's television show that after many years of success aired an episode that destroyed the credibility of a main character that led to the cancelation of the program soon after. The phrase has been expanded in common usage to any situation involving a poorly thought out decision or statement that leads to loss of credibility. American fighter bombers were very effective with acceptable loss rates. To claim otherwise is jumping the shark. In regard to this discussion you have jumped the shark.
well i think Ive seen it all now. Have you even read the refeernces you have posted. ive not read the second, but i have read th first. I'm not going to waste my time trying to educate you, because you will only be rude about it and attempt to lower the standard of dialogue to a very low point. But I can say, that the book on allied air power whilst critical of the cost of air support generally, and just happening to concentrate on the allied effort, does not in any way support the claims you are making. Pretty much the opposite in fact. talk about misrepresenting the facts. if you are going to be so loose with the truth, so cockeyed in your view of the facts, and so unable to accommodate alternate views, I agree with NZ, whats the point in talking to you.
Let me say this in conclusion. ive locked horns with some pretty tough germanophiles over the years, which is fine. Without exception, I respected all of them because they knew their stuff, and were not so bald faced in misreprestation of the facts. They were worthy and to adegree honourable opponents. After seeing what I have see today, I cannot say the same about you. You are willing to say anything, do anything, misrepresent anything to get your preconceived notions accepted.
Please, go away and think about your ethical standards before coming back to this place. It really is annoying to have to troll through what are obvious untruths and be insulted the whole time, by someone who i believe does not wish or care for the truth. Its one of those things i will not abide, people who are unable to be honest
If you're not feeling well maybe you need some time off.I can recommend some Greek islands.I think Mykonos would be to your liking.
haha.. you are entertaining ctrian. I see Mykonos is for sale though.
Cheers
John
About casualties i also have this link : http://web.archive.org/web/20081211084314/http://www.lesbutler.ip3.co.uk/jg26/thtrlosses.htm
Source is given as : O. Gröhler, "Stärke, Verteilung und Verluste der deutschen Luftwaffe im zweiten Weltkrieg", Militärgeschichte 17, pp. 316-336 (1978)
If you're not feeling well maybe you need some time off.I can recommend some Greek islands.I think Mykonos would be to your liking.
Please notice that I am separating out the capabilities of the aircraft from the actual usage. In 1940 the Germans had no need of a different aircraft or airframe. The "F" version continued the 109s position as one of the best, but with a different tail ( no supporting struts) and a modified wing and forward fuselage/cowl there were some significant changes. For 1941 there is still no other challenger than the Spitfire (except maybe the Zero). At some point in 1942 things start to change. Spitfire weapon load has gotten much heavier starting in 1941, American planes, while not in theater yet are rolling of the lines with heavy armament if not sparkling performance. (P-40E&Fs) Early P-47s. P-38s. FW 190s for the Germans also show the future. Typhoons also show up, badly flawed, but showing the trend.
By 1943 the 109 is no longer in the front rank as a fighter bomber. It's air to air armament in the early "G"s leaves a lot to be desired. A single 20mm and two 7.9mm mgs is just not world class. It can be fought effectively by good pilots but it is not the armament anybody designing a new fighter would pick. actual speed, climb and air to air combat performance is still very good but range is little better than the 1940 "E". the lower drag and more efficient engine help but with no change in fuel capacity the ability to "project" power is lacking. Withe Luftwaffe going over to the defensive this is less important to the Germans but is another strike against the 109 for considering it world class.
The G-6 bring the 13mm cowl guns which, while nice, are a day late and dollar short as far as firepower goes. Newer DB 605 engines keep flight performance up which keeps the 109 useful as a point defense interceptor. Provision of the 30mm MK 108 cannon helps firepower at the cost of combat duration. 6 seconds of firing time is rather short. The British have been doing better than that since 1941.
The Late "G"s and "K-4" get even more engine power but darn little else.
They are fast with excellent climb and good agility but lacking in both flight endurance ( again, less important to the Germans but saying the Germans didn't need a little more is making excuses) and combat power, a single 30mm cannon with 60 rounds and two 13 mm pea shooters (the least powerful 12.7-13mm mgs used by anybody). Bombing ability is no better than a Curtiss P-40C.
well i think Ive seen it all now. Have you even read the refeernces you have posted. ive not read the second, but i have read th first. I'm not going to waste my time trying to educate you, because you will only be rude about it and attempt to lower the standard of dialogue to a very low point. But I can say, that the book on allied air power whilst critical of the cost of air support generally, and just happening to concentrate on the allied effort, does not in any way support the claims you are making. Pretty much the opposite in fact. talk about misrepresenting the facts. if you are going to be so loose with the truth, so cockeyed in your view of the facts, and so unable to accommodate alternate views, I agree with NZ, whats the point in talking to you.
Let me say this in conclusion. ive locked horns with some pretty tough germanophiles over the years, which is fine. Without exception, I respected all of them because they knew their stuff, and were not so bald faced in misreprestation of the facts. They were worthy and to adegree honourable opponents. After seeing what I have see today, I cannot say the same about you. You are willing to say anything, do anything, misrepresent anything to get your preconceived notions accepted.
Please, go away and think about your ethical standards before coming back to this place. It really is annoying to have to troll through what are obvious untruths and be insulted the whole time, by someone who i believe does not wish or care for the truth. Its one of those things i will not abide, people who are unable to be honest
I find this post very repulsive. General post like this. You tell the other poster everything. He is misrepresenting the facts. He is cockeyed in his. view of the facts. He is a troll.
No, he has opinion. He has right to express it, as any other. You may disagree. You may NOT insult. Basic rules of netiquette.
Basic - you say he is a liar. You insult him, repeated, and actually say nothing on subject. You insult, smear, attack every poster not agree with you. Not first thread I see this, but this time it is enough. You do not respect opinion of others. If he disagrees - he is germanohile, troll, liar, dishonest, cockeyed, preconceived. Your words - and you use them often and lenghty. Other thread too - you disagreed with his opinion. Obvious you come this thread not to discuss, but have shots at him. Because he was brave to disagree with your infallible opinion..
And then say about "ethical standards". You know not in reality of word. All you accuse him is you doing. It is hypocrite. The troll is you..
I find this post very repulsive. General post like this. You tell the other poster everything. He is misrepresenting the facts. He is cockeyed in his. view of the facts. He is a troll.
No, he has opinion. He has right to express it, as any other. You may disagree. You may NOT insult. Basic rules of netiquette.
Basic - you say he is a liar. You insult him, repeated, and actually say nothing on subject. You insult, smear, attack every poster not agree with you. Not first thread I see this, but this time it is enough. You do not respect opinion of others. If he disagrees - he is germanohile, troll, liar, dishonest, cockeyed, preconceived. Your words - and you use them often and lenghty. Other thread too - you disagreed with his opinion. Obvious you come this thread not to discuss, but have shots at him. Because he was brave to disagree with your infallible opinion..
And then say about "ethical standards". You know not in reality of word. All you accuse him is you doing. It is hypocrite. The troll is you..
As usual your references are dodgy and misleading, The source you give is stated in the article by this les Butler and is in fact the object of his critique. It is not the source of the link you have provided at all. But I guess you already know that.
The link itself is dubious and rubbish basically. Apart from the target of its cabal, it is an unreferenced article, author unkown, and no way to check the veracity of its claims. Cannot find any references to this les Butler.
So my summation. Unsubstantiated rubbish basically because it has shoddy and questionable credentials. if this is the sort of material that you have based your opinions, then no wonder you are out there.