Star Wars the last jedi
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michaelmaltby
Colonel
Indigenous Storm Trooper - British Columbia
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- #23
The Basket
Senior Master Sergeant
- 3,712
- Jun 27, 2007
It has the star wars name. But it like the stores own coffee. The cheap non brand stuff. It's coffee but not nice.
Luke Skywalker is Luke Skywalker so he must act like Luke Skywalker. Mark Hamill is quoted saying he said to the director that his Luke is acting totally out of character and he don't like it.
If I put a Ferrari badge on my car don't make it a Ferrari.
Luke Skywalker is Luke Skywalker so he must act like Luke Skywalker. Mark Hamill is quoted saying he said to the director that his Luke is acting totally out of character and he don't like it.
If I put a Ferrari badge on my car don't make it a Ferrari.
Agreed, Luke gave me a scared Yoda vibe, Loda perhaps ? :S
I had the same feeling for a movie as when the new Start Trek Movie rebooted, it was ok, just not the same feel, and I get it they need to re-vamp things occasionally, but not to the extent of where things start falling apart.
Star Wars has turned into Humpy Dumpty, I think there might be another movie, but it would be the last, as all this revamping and editing has created some movies which are memorable, and some which aren't.
I would have preferred some of the core items, like stormtroopers, etc. to stay the same, the revamp on the trooper looked more clone than anything, the helmet wasn't as intimidating as the originals.
The highlight of the movie for me was Vice Admiral Holdo and I really wish they could have developed her character more. Benicio's Character "DJ" was great as well, but I would have preferred he switched back to the Rebels at the end and lended some aide (ie a nod to Han saving the day)
mikewint
Captain
I guess part of the problem (if there is one, opinions vary) is the directors. As they change from movie to movie each projects his own image of what the universe should do and be. Then you have the Dizzy take on all things and one eye toward toy profits ( the silly rolling robot and pogues.
DJ is Solo's replacement, just consider all the similarities. Remember IV, the only way Luke got Solo on board with rescuing Leia was to mention money so I think we'll see more of the new DJ/Solo in the next movie.
Just as an aside, the Cretins can't leave Star Trek alone either. Now most of those changes were due to the advancements in CGI and having more money to create sets and IMHO that is/was an improvement but have you seen the "NEW" Klingons!!! Good Grief!!! There must be one heck of a lot of radiation on their home world to produce such massive genetic changes in such a short period of time.
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- #26
The Basket
Senior Master Sergeant
- 3,712
- Jun 27, 2007
I don't get the 5 star rating the film gets. 3 absolute tops. Odd I watched back to the future over Xmas and that is a 5 star movie in anyone's book. Back to the Future is everything Last Jedi isn't.
It's the basic Hero Journey.
Normal ordinary chap gets in an adventure...usually by accident. Has a older wiser guy helping them out. Faces trials and tribulations on the way. Has some female love interest but wins the day in the end. We can empathize with the hero because he is you or me. And therefore he is relatable.
That's sums up Luke Skywalker or Marty McFly or a Hobbit.
It's the basic Hero Journey.
Normal ordinary chap gets in an adventure...usually by accident. Has a older wiser guy helping them out. Faces trials and tribulations on the way. Has some female love interest but wins the day in the end. We can empathize with the hero because he is you or me. And therefore he is relatable.
That's sums up Luke Skywalker or Marty McFly or a Hobbit.
mikewint
Captain
Reviewers tend to fall into basic groups. Some can get well-known enough to receive all kinds of perks and special treatment and a massive company like Dizzy wields a LOT of clout. Hence a reviewer who slams a Dizzy offering will tend to get fewer and fewer perks and shabbier and shabbier treatment while the reverse is true for the "Golly GEE it was WONDERFUL" group. The old "Don't bite the hand that feeds you". Then there are the rabid fans in both camps that will go to a sites like Rotten Tomatoes and spend many hours pushing the "Like" or "Hate" buttons to influence the ratings. One rabid hater even created a Bot to "push" the Hate-button to decrease the rating. Then there is Dizzy itself. With millions at stake do you think that they will sit idly by while getting slammed. The Dizzy publicity machine is hard at work shaping public opinion and denigrating the anti-crowd. I've seen many reviews that are now are calling Last Jedi the Greatest Star War Movie Ever Made.
I seldom if ever trust either review. The power of Dizzy is such that there is now an interview online with Mark Hamill wherein he essentially apologises for his "creative difference" over his view of Luke Skywalker and the director/writers. He praises them for even considering his ideas and states that now that he has seen the movie in its entirety he realizes how wrong he was and how utterly fantastic the movie actually is. Sad but we all gots to eat.
I seldom if ever trust either review. The power of Dizzy is such that there is now an interview online with Mark Hamill wherein he essentially apologises for his "creative difference" over his view of Luke Skywalker and the director/writers. He praises them for even considering his ideas and states that now that he has seen the movie in its entirety he realizes how wrong he was and how utterly fantastic the movie actually is. Sad but we all gots to eat.
fubar57
General
This.....is why I quit going to movies back in the last millenium
mikewint
Captain
Much as I love to say that things were "different" in Ye Olde Times it really wasn't. Things have just shifted location. In my Heyday Movie Magazines, gossip columnists (Hedda Hopper, LA Times; Louella Parsons, Hurst Newspapers) wrote columns read by millions published in hundreds of newspapers and could easily make or break a Star or a movie. As print media slowly gave way to TV, critics like Roger Ebert, Pauline Kael, and Gene Siskel wielded a very similar power. But another shift is also starting to surface as recent Media mergers have brought TV networks into the same companies that produce and create movies.
Lately the power has shifted to the internet and the internet powerhouse Rotten Tomatoes. Fandango now posts RT scores right next to the Purchase button where a rotten score literally says "You're an idiot if you but this". Something like 15 million people a month check RT before going to a movie. The movie Baywatch got a Tomatometer score of 19...and died. The King Arthur Legend of the Sword got a 28 and died loosing Warner Bros. over $130 million.
Now here's the REAL catch to all this: Fandango OWNS Rotten Tomatoes AND Fandango is in turn owned (a division of) NBCUniversal WHICH also owns Universal Pictures. RT execs claim total independence...Yup and I'm young, handsome, and rich!
Lately the power has shifted to the internet and the internet powerhouse Rotten Tomatoes. Fandango now posts RT scores right next to the Purchase button where a rotten score literally says "You're an idiot if you but this". Something like 15 million people a month check RT before going to a movie. The movie Baywatch got a Tomatometer score of 19...and died. The King Arthur Legend of the Sword got a 28 and died loosing Warner Bros. over $130 million.
Now here's the REAL catch to all this: Fandango OWNS Rotten Tomatoes AND Fandango is in turn owned (a division of) NBCUniversal WHICH also owns Universal Pictures. RT execs claim total independence...Yup and I'm young, handsome, and rich!
- Thread starter
- #30
The Basket
Senior Master Sergeant
- 3,712
- Jun 27, 2007
If Disney want to give me a big bag of cash then my view on this film can change. Those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, I have others.
Hamill wants to ride that dollar pony because he needs a new pair of shoes.
I should hate him for selling out for money but I would only be jealous.
Hamill wants to ride that dollar pony because he needs a new pair of shoes.
I should hate him for selling out for money but I would only be jealous.
JKim
Senior Master Sergeant
I'm in the LIKED IT camp. I liked it more than Rogue One. More than The Force Awakens. I'd rank it between the original trilogy and the prequels, which I detested. While TFA was an unabashed redo of ANH, I felt that this one took some chances and I appreciated the daring to break some unexpected ground. I like what they did with the idea of the Force and I enjoyed the relationship between Rey and Kylo. It was a wee bit too long and personally thought some of the characters/story arcs were unnecessary (Captain Phasma, the casino detour and Benicio Del Toro's character, for example). But overall, I enjoyed it and am looking forward to Episode Nine.
mikewint
Captain
Differences of opinion and tastes make the world a very interesting place. You and I are in 100% agreement and 100% disagreement, amazing.
I detest what they did to the character of Luke and the unabashed in-your-face feminism and PCness REALLY raised my hackles and ire. There are simply too many cooks in the Star Wars pot and the thematic elements zag and zig with minimal continuity. At least with I - VI Lucas was in charge and the episodes had some continuity though IV was the furthest out as Lucas expected it to be the only SW movie and had to do some major backpedaling to continue the storyline. The "Vader killed your father" to "Vader is your father" and the Luke and Leia kiss are prime examples
Now I LIKED Rogue One and totally agree with your assessment of VII as a remake of IV - VI all in one movie sans Luke, who is apparently in a snit off on some armpit of a rock milking birds and contemplating his navel, abandoning everyone and everything he ever held dear. Nope...NOT!
I detest what they did to the character of Luke and the unabashed in-your-face feminism and PCness REALLY raised my hackles and ire. There are simply too many cooks in the Star Wars pot and the thematic elements zag and zig with minimal continuity. At least with I - VI Lucas was in charge and the episodes had some continuity though IV was the furthest out as Lucas expected it to be the only SW movie and had to do some major backpedaling to continue the storyline. The "Vader killed your father" to "Vader is your father" and the Luke and Leia kiss are prime examples
Now I LIKED Rogue One and totally agree with your assessment of VII as a remake of IV - VI all in one movie sans Luke, who is apparently in a snit off on some armpit of a rock milking birds and contemplating his navel, abandoning everyone and everything he ever held dear. Nope...NOT!
JKim
Senior Master Sergeant
Yeah, alike but different. From my perspective, what Rian Johnson did with Luke's character pales to what Lucas did to Vader in the prequels. And the "modifications" to the original trilogy? Hans shooting first? Sticking that Hayden Christiansen in with the other Jedi ghosts? You gotta be kidding me! No, I lost major respect for Lucas after that prequel disaster and the DVD money grab. I, for one, am relieved that he turned over the keys to other more capable people.
mikewint
Captain
Yea, me too. I was also really glad when Lucas bowed out. I also had high hopes that Dizzy with its essentially limitless resources and talent would do spectacular things for SW and that I might actually see all 9 movies in my lifetime. Alas and Alak the wanting is always better than the having.
Now I always thought that the change from Anakin to Vader was handled relatively well in the limited time available sort of the "in for a penny, in for a pound transformation"
Now the handling of the Force has always been kinda done on the fly. Think about I where we suddenly hear about Midichlorians and that there is a test for them. Obi-wan had just stated that the Force was an energy field created by living beings that binds the galaxy together...very spiritual. Then
all of a sudden, instead of there being an energy field that "binds the galaxy together," there are little microscopic life forms inside of the Jedi, allowing them to… do what? What do the microscopic entities have to do with the galaxy-wide life force? Are they like symbiotes that allow you to connect to the energy field? If the Force is in every living thing, then why do only some people have midichlorians? Does the Dark Side of the Force have different-flavored midichlorians than the light side? What was a fairly clear-cut explanation suddenly becomes incredibly muddled.
Now there is a bit more in the SW Expanded Universe and I get these Midichlorian counts:
Anakin Skywalk/Darth Vader (27,000) is the consensus #1 on this list. His count was considered to be off the charts.
Emperor Palpatine/Darth Sidious (19,000) is usually ranked #2, the most powerful Sith aside from Darth Vader, and slightly above...
Yoda (17,000) is the most powerful Jedi ever.
Luke Skywalker (15,000) is the son of Anakin Skywalker.
Leia Organa (15,000) is Luke Skywalker's twin, so she has an identical midichlorian count.
Some other notable individuals and the midichlorian estimates:
Anakin Solo/Ben Solo/Kylo Ren (13,500) the son of Leia Organa and Han Solo
Count Dooku/Darth Tyranus (13,500) the Sith who defeated...
Obi-Wan Kenobi (13,400) the Jedi who defeated...
Darth Maul (12,000)
The consensus is that the midichlorian count does not in itself determine an individual strength in the Force but only their potential. Wonder what if anything more Dizzy will do with/to the Force . Though apparently Force Ghosts can now take physical form and interact physically with the living...so where's Anakin, Palpatine and Obi-wan. The Force also now allows a living Jedi to project themselves in a physical form millions of LYs across the galaxy...
Poor Hayden (I don't like sand) was only 19 at the time reading Lukas' corney script. Now as I understand it at the end of VI the young Anakin joins Yoda and Obi-wan as a Force ghost BECAUSE as Vader he killed Palpatine thus redeeming himself and abandoning the Darkside to rejoin the Lightside thus it is the young Anakin who had not yet joined with the Darkside that appears with Yoda and Obi-wan. What confused me was that Yoda and Obi-wan had vanished after death leaving only a pile of robes while Vader/Anakin had simply died, did not vanish and was cremated. Then there is the appearance of Liam Neeson's Qui-Gon Jinn who was killed, did not vanish, and was also cremated also appears as a Force Ghost. WTF is going on here?
Now I always thought that the change from Anakin to Vader was handled relatively well in the limited time available sort of the "in for a penny, in for a pound transformation"
Now the handling of the Force has always been kinda done on the fly. Think about I where we suddenly hear about Midichlorians and that there is a test for them. Obi-wan had just stated that the Force was an energy field created by living beings that binds the galaxy together...very spiritual. Then
all of a sudden, instead of there being an energy field that "binds the galaxy together," there are little microscopic life forms inside of the Jedi, allowing them to… do what? What do the microscopic entities have to do with the galaxy-wide life force? Are they like symbiotes that allow you to connect to the energy field? If the Force is in every living thing, then why do only some people have midichlorians? Does the Dark Side of the Force have different-flavored midichlorians than the light side? What was a fairly clear-cut explanation suddenly becomes incredibly muddled.
Now there is a bit more in the SW Expanded Universe and I get these Midichlorian counts:
Anakin Skywalk/Darth Vader (27,000) is the consensus #1 on this list. His count was considered to be off the charts.
Emperor Palpatine/Darth Sidious (19,000) is usually ranked #2, the most powerful Sith aside from Darth Vader, and slightly above...
Yoda (17,000) is the most powerful Jedi ever.
Luke Skywalker (15,000) is the son of Anakin Skywalker.
Leia Organa (15,000) is Luke Skywalker's twin, so she has an identical midichlorian count.
Some other notable individuals and the midichlorian estimates:
Anakin Solo/Ben Solo/Kylo Ren (13,500) the son of Leia Organa and Han Solo
Count Dooku/Darth Tyranus (13,500) the Sith who defeated...
Obi-Wan Kenobi (13,400) the Jedi who defeated...
Darth Maul (12,000)
The consensus is that the midichlorian count does not in itself determine an individual strength in the Force but only their potential. Wonder what if anything more Dizzy will do with/to the Force . Though apparently Force Ghosts can now take physical form and interact physically with the living...so where's Anakin, Palpatine and Obi-wan. The Force also now allows a living Jedi to project themselves in a physical form millions of LYs across the galaxy...
Poor Hayden (I don't like sand) was only 19 at the time reading Lukas' corney script. Now as I understand it at the end of VI the young Anakin joins Yoda and Obi-wan as a Force ghost BECAUSE as Vader he killed Palpatine thus redeeming himself and abandoning the Darkside to rejoin the Lightside thus it is the young Anakin who had not yet joined with the Darkside that appears with Yoda and Obi-wan. What confused me was that Yoda and Obi-wan had vanished after death leaving only a pile of robes while Vader/Anakin had simply died, did not vanish and was cremated. Then there is the appearance of Liam Neeson's Qui-Gon Jinn who was killed, did not vanish, and was also cremated also appears as a Force Ghost. WTF is going on here?
- Thread starter
- #35
The Basket
Senior Master Sergeant
- 3,712
- Jun 27, 2007
I did enjoy Rogue one. The bit when Vader went nuts is the highlight of cinema for me. More Vader going nuts and less social justice commentary.
It was all made up on the fly and George Lucas got lucky. I remember reading or hearing somewhere that the force was originally going to be a ring. Bit like Spaceballs.
There is a YouTube with Alec Guinness in which he treats Star Wars with grace but believe that people may look too deep into it. Like make it a religion.
To be honest I hope Disney lose some feathers over this and realise that its a film about war set in space with spaceships and lasers and magic wizards with laser swords and bad guys dressed in black with heavy breathing issues.
It was all made up on the fly and George Lucas got lucky. I remember reading or hearing somewhere that the force was originally going to be a ring. Bit like Spaceballs.
There is a YouTube with Alec Guinness in which he treats Star Wars with grace but believe that people may look too deep into it. Like make it a religion.
To be honest I hope Disney lose some feathers over this and realise that its a film about war set in space with spaceships and lasers and magic wizards with laser swords and bad guys dressed in black with heavy breathing issues.
JKim
Senior Master Sergeant
Just curious... where do you guys see this feminism, political correctness and social justice commentary in the Star Wars films? Is it because the main characters are female and people of color?
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- #37
The Basket
Senior Master Sergeant
- 3,712
- Jun 27, 2007
The casino planet was full of awful rich people. Who were disgusting in Thier opulence. Then thier slave creatures were released and destroyed the casino and probs killed a few wealthy patrons.
This is made by Disney!!! What's that? Rebel against the rich? I thought it smacked of Marxist propoganda!
What the hell!!!! Star wars had non whites for years. Yoda was green! Mace Windu and Lando. The Luke Skywalker character was basically castrated. Also Rey is such an unrealistic character. She can fly the millennium falcon without any kind of training or knowledge. She can laser sword fight a trained Sith and beat him??? She can fix and repair stuff. And can understand Wookies and robots
So a strong female lead without weakness and perfect at everything.
As noted before, one should be able to happily urinate on a film without being called racist. And say Rey is a stupid character without being called sexist. In these social justice warrior times that is simply not allowed to have a dissenting view
This is made by Disney!!! What's that? Rebel against the rich? I thought it smacked of Marxist propoganda!
What the hell!!!! Star wars had non whites for years. Yoda was green! Mace Windu and Lando. The Luke Skywalker character was basically castrated. Also Rey is such an unrealistic character. She can fly the millennium falcon without any kind of training or knowledge. She can laser sword fight a trained Sith and beat him??? She can fix and repair stuff. And can understand Wookies and robots
So a strong female lead without weakness and perfect at everything.
As noted before, one should be able to happily urinate on a film without being called racist. And say Rey is a stupid character without being called sexist. In these social justice warrior times that is simply not allowed to have a dissenting view
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JKim
Senior Master Sergeant
Hey, I'm just asking. I'm not labeling anyone! I grew up as a minority in the US and I have two daughters (no sons), so my viewpoints tend to be appropriately skewed. I didn't think TLJ or Rogue One reeked of feminism or political correctness or social justice so I was curious where people saw it. That's all. Sorry if the question offended.
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- #39
The Basket
Senior Master Sergeant
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- Jun 27, 2007
I am not offended. I apologize if I come across as such.
But The Last Jedi makes me angry. And it grinds my gears.
And anger leads to the dark side of the force.
But The Last Jedi makes me angry. And it grinds my gears.
And anger leads to the dark side of the force.
JKim
Senior Master Sergeant
Understood! I watched Star Wars when it came out in 1977. I remember seeing an article in Time magazine that got me excited to see it. The movie was playing at the old Cinerama theater in Honolulu and the line wrapped around the block twice. It was more than a movie... it was an event and a seminal moment for me as a 13 year old kid. I've found that those moments can't be easily replicated and I no longer look for movies to have a profound effect on me. And it's not a matter of whether a movie is good or bad. I think a movie's ability to leave imprints on peoples' psyche diminishes as one gets older.
