Strange Bader Internet Site

[norbert yeah]

Has anyone else seen this site, and the resulting fracases that have been going on elsewhere on the internet, on various historic sites, including the BBC?

Oddball Bader Website

What do you make of it ? Could he have met Bader during the Liverpool Blitz ?

 

[the lancaster kicks ass]

i think this makes for an interesting story but nothing more than that..........

 

[merlin]

Yes a curious story. On the one hand what has he got to gain by 'spinning a yarn', but on the other I see no reason why it couldn't have come out officially after the war.
I do remember a recent programme on Channel 4, about the other aircraft that was involved with Bader's downfall. After much excavating of farmland, talking to local 'witnesses', even analysing weather reports - affecting parachute descent; none of the 109 wrecks they found tallyed with the expected damage. Hence the conclusion that Bader was not involved with a collision but shot down. But to add a further twist - it turned out to be 'friendly fire'!!

Anybody else wonder why in the BoB he wasn't transferred to 11 Group to give him a bit more action!?

 

[norbert yeah]

Hence the conclusion that Bader was not involved with a collision but shot down. But to add a further twist - it turned out to be 'friendly fire'!!

From readiing this website, I was lead to believe that Bader was shot down by Galland himself

Anybody else wonder why in the BoB he wasn't transferred to 11 Group to give him a bit more action!?

Possibly because his belief in the big wing theory went against that of Park and Dowding.

 

[merlin]

Yes his 'big wing' theory was against the 'Dowding system' as practised by Park. But wasn't this idea, borne out of frustration over the lack of action, he and his squadron were getting? Hence if in reply to the quest for more action was a transfer to say Tangmere - no 'big wing'!

 

[norbert yeah]

Yes his 'big wing' theory was against the 'Dowding system' as practised by Park. But wasn't this idea, borne out of frustration over the lack of action, he and his squadron were getting? Hence if in reply to the quest for more action was a transfer to say Tangmere - no 'big wing'!

Possibly, however there was an obvious clash of personalities between Leigh Mallory/Bader and Park/Dowding over the tactics. Moving Bader under Parks control may have compounded this problem and upset the balance. Big wings took time to formate, time the units to the south of London didn't have, so the use of individual squadrons in ones or twos was the better tactics to suit the battle of the day and to conserve the reserves, however frustrating for Bader.

In the end Park and Dowding were proved right and proved that they were the right men in the right jobs at the time. However Bader continued to dispute their tactics to his dying day.

 

[Gnomey]

That site is full of **** and the webmaster is too (had a long discussion about this on WW2Talk)...

 

[Emac44]

Gnomey i would have to agree. I read some of this from the webpage. Its easy to character assasinate some one when they are already dead and have been for some time and has no chance to refute these claims. For me I will just put it down to tall poppy syndrome and nothing more

 

[norbert yeah]

There appears to be many holes and inaccuracies in the whole story, the dates don't seem to match up to documented events.

 

[Emac44]

Norbert the first few passages don't add up. Man is claiming that Bader was a helpless cripple. If that is so then Fighter Command would not have excepted him under any circumstances and he would have been rejected from applying for service in the RAF unless it was a desk job etc or administration duties etc. To me its just another tall poppy syndrome attempt to discredit some one who is no longer alive. In itself that is deplorable

 

[norbert yeah]

A man with an excellent memory for dates but bad spelling, thought he had been walking by a remote beach one day in 1942 and happened to look up when he was horrified to see a very large airliner, without undercarriage, dive and crash with immense force into the ocean and within minutes disappeared under the waves leaving no apparent trace.

60 years later he writes a book and sets up a website to recall his experiences and the details behind the missing aircraft. This will make my mundane existence interesting, and give me a chance to counter anyone who offers up the slightest bit of contrary evidence, because I was there, am a war veteran and therefore totally honest and believable.

He recounted his experience and behold many people looked in and took note. Some without forethought even believed his story, however many looked in and laughed, an aircraft, without under carriage disappearing with out a record in 1942, how absurd as this aircraft was elsewhere in the world at this time. No no shouted the man, you are all a'holes, as I was there, am a war veteran and what I say is the truth.

So, many people took exception to his retort, and looked further into the story and brought back evidence to prove that his observations were wrong, this type of aircraft could not come down in 1942 as it was taken out of service in 1941 and the nearby landing strip wasn't built until 1943. But it fell on blind eyes and deaf ears, because as we all know, we are all a'holes, were not there and are not war veterans so can not be believed.

It is a conspiracy to silence me and hide the truth, said the man. I will find the evidence and make it fit into my story, I will prove all you a'holes wrong, as you were not there, are not war veterans and therefore all supporting evidence has to be wrong.

And so off he went, but low, the evidence wasn't there, so in an attempt to give his story some credence he drew upon other stories and built them into his own, and declared, here this is strange, this must be relevant and proves that I am right, because you are all a'holes, are not war veterans and therefore any evidence you supply is wrong and not admissible.

Many came back and said this is not right, these events do not fit into your story, the dates are all wrong. Look at my website he retorts, the events fit perfectly and I haven't changed a thing, because I am a disabled war veteran, with a good memory and as you are all Nazi's, you can not be believed.

The end to this story is, that there is not end, the man forges on in complete ignorance to the facts and continues his quest to find the proof to squeeze into his story to make it even more believable. The real benefactor from this fable has to be the Oxford English dictionary which is now much richer for this story and has gained a new word :-

Ignoranus (n): A person who's both stupid and an a'hole

 

[Emac44]

Norbert I agree. with your last post. It reminds me of the Lindy Chamberlyn case here were a dingo supposively went into a camp site and took a sleeping child from a camp site in the Northern Territory in late August 1980. the child's name was Azzaria Chamberlyn. to make a long story short the mother Lindy was tried for murder and then imprisoned in the belief that no dingo could take a sleeping child from a well frequented camp site where plenty of people would have chased of the animal etc that the mother was to blame for the death of the child etc. Consquently during the numerous trials held in court every one and his mate had a theory of undeniable proof of what occured in that campsite in 1980. terms like we heard if from a neighbour of a second cousin of Mrs Clearsoup who lives 15 kilometres from Charters Towers in North Queensland heard if from Mr Fred Dinkleberry the butcher etc of Cooroy that Lindy herself sacrificed the child in a moonlight pagan ritual. in other words rumours and bullshit and none of it being abled to be proved. hence i put this web site in a similar catergory about Douglas Bader. Bader's records from the RAF or the Ministry for Air are recorded. However the records of this person who says likewise against Bader we only have his word for it that this occured. Think i will go with the Official records then memories of some one with an axe to grind. Methinks possibley bader didn't tip this hotel porter enough and he got the humpty do and **** on the liver over Bader treating him with indifference 60 odd years ago

 

[norbert yeah]

Hopefully the whole sorry tale and his website will pass into history in time.

 

[Emac44]

possibley and no one will bother with it again. As i said mate. some have tall poppy syndrome. Any way i still consider Douglas Bader a remarkable man and to hell with this arsehole who is trying to begrudge Bader a place in history. reminds me of an older thread that some of the Americans were upset with and FBJ could tell you more something about Greg Pappy Boyington being denied a memorial in one of the universities in the US think it was University of Washington if memory serves me right