Ta152 v Tempest, That famous fight 14 April 45

Discussion in 'Aviation' started by fastmongrel, Feb 21, 2016.

  1. fastmongrel

    fastmongrel Well-Known Member

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    I dont know if this has been posted before but I came across this looking for something else and its an interesting read. It shows the danger of taking one persons recollection of an event as gospel.

    Its one of the most famous, quoted and misunderstood fights of the war. Sometimes it is deliberately misunderstood. It probably isnt the final word on this fight but it does show some info I was unaware of.

    Ludwigslust aerial combat
     
  2. Juha

    Juha Well-Known Member

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    CloCloZ article have been here earlier, that thread ended with a heated argument between CloCloZ and Soren
     
  3. fastmongrel

    fastmongrel Well-Known Member

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    I thought it would have been linked by someone but didnt spot it when it was done previously.
     
  4. Kryten

    Kryten Member

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    If you read about that combat from a non partisan view it takes very little time to realise the combat was all about situation, the airframes made pretty much no difference!

    Sattler gets bounced by two tempests goes down, Mitchell gets bounced by Reshke and goes in, you could cycle through several different airframes and end up with the same result!

    Quite how that shows a superiority of a particular aircraft is a mystery to me!
     
  5. GregP

    GregP Well-Known Member

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    It does show how important situational awareness was/is and gives some pause for thought on when to stop being a hunter and evade for your life or, at least, check the rear quarter.
     
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  6. GrauGeist

    GrauGeist Well-Known Member

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    I have always wondered why T/O Cescotti (of Jg301) would have used the term "kette" in his report.

    Aside from a "Kette" 2 or 3 fighters in WWI (termed by Hasso Von Wedel), the term "Kette" referred to a flight of three bombers during WWII and not a term (at least from I've read) for fighter formations being used since the Spanish Civil war.
     
  7. Milosh

    Milosh Well-Known Member

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    Is there another R Cescotti with JG301 as Hptm Roderich Cescotti was the CO of II./JG301 at the time?
     
  8. MildExplosion

    MildExplosion New Member

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    Huh, interesting read. Accounts of air combat at that time tended to be very unreliable, but both sides inflating their kills and victories.
     
  9. Peter Gunn

    Peter Gunn Active Member

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    Having gone through and read many of the older threads here, why does this not surprise me?
     
  10. fastmongrel

    fastmongrel Well-Known Member

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    The vast majority of times it was not done deliberately. We know more today about how fallible the brain is when recollecting events certainly in British Law Courts unsupported eyewitness testimony is not sufficent to get a conviction and I imagine it is the same in most democratic countries.
     
  11. pbehn

    pbehn Well-Known Member

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    I got the impression from the language used that someone was trying to sell the properties of the aircraft, the language is strangely flowery and enthusiastic for a pilots report in places, or am I seeing things that arent there?
     
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  12. fastmongrel

    fastmongrel Well-Known Member

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    I thought that myself but its probably the translation.
     
  13. Peter Gunn

    Peter Gunn Active Member

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    I agree, although it could be a translation issue, it sounds almost like an AAR that's been embellished by a salesman. I've had more than one document I've prepared "reworked" by a PR or sales type to make me sound way more erudite than I am.
     
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